drag and hand activation

[Bishop]

Well - what about girls who throw right and swing left? Or vice versa? How do you get them started?

12 of my 14 players this year throw right and swing left. Your question is a little general but I'll have a go.

First thing is flip em around and have them swing, swing and swing a little more. A metric butt load is a good amount of swings to aim for.

The first goal is to get over OH MY GOD THIS FEELS SO FRIKKIN WEIRD stage. From there I start retooling start to finish bottom to top.

First thing I look at is Stance, balance and correct angles at the ready stance. take a standard butt load of swings until the batter can set up corretly in a ready stance from the left side.
Second Load, check the legs and load depth, keep the weight inside the back knee, on the inside of the back foot. Take another standard butt load of swings from the left side until the load phase lower half is looking good and consistently correct.
Next move onto separation at load and live hands during load for another standard butt load of swings from the left side.

Then to what ever the next phase of the swing as you teach it. Stride, stretch, toe touch all the way through to follow through. I seem to have the most luck correcting swing problems working from the feet up.

That sounds a little off. The first metric butt load of swings to get past the freak out stage includes coaching some semblance of a reasonable swing pattern. The above progression is more of a fine tune to bring the swing patter from the left side up to or past the quality that was present from the right.

Was any of that helpful? If you have more specific questions I'd be happy to try to explain if I know how.

Really the biggest hurdle is getting beyond the freak out stage. I've only worked with girls 8 - 11 on flipping them. I imagine it might be easier with older girls who know why they are doing it and have some idea of what they are in for before they start. As long as they are commited to the change to improve thier game, I'm sure they are going to get it done with your help.

 

[tom.guerry]

teaching a good throw sequence will carry over some and encourage HLBB pattern even if throwing/dominant arm is front arm/tunred around swinger. that's the way the brain/body work.

 

[Wellphyt]

teaching a good throw sequence will carry over some and encourage HLBB pattern even if throwing/dominant arm is front arm/tunred around swinger. that's the way the brain/body work.

Thank's Tom, that's good to know. I don't think you can go wrong by teaching a good overhand throw sequence. Worst case is you end up with a player who throws better. Btw - I went out and bought some Nerf footballs with the fins attached on one end, per Hodge's recommendations. Awesome overhand throw training device. The girls love throwing them, and we can use them in the cold weather.

 

[SBFAMILY]

The "move"......see thread 185

If you are really looking at the girl in red swing, she landed open and flat footed and the back knee comes under her! That is wrong anyway. You cannot compare a male who has narrower hips, very little Q angle, an ACL that is different as to structure where the ACL actually passes through, hamstring to quad is almost balanced and that the glutes actually fire the knee upon jumping or landing and less spacing between the legs. Center of gravity is higher and we jump and land at about 2.5 times our body weight.

The female hips are wider, the glutes do not fire the ACL, as it must be taught to them, the ACL were it passes through can rub when the ACL is out of position and the hips rotate better when the knee is thrusted by lifting the heel first and the weight is from the big toe and toe next to it and the knee cap is basically pointed towards the second baseman's normal playing position first as a right handed hitter. Then the hips rotate more efficiently and safely. When the knee is directed more under them there is more stress on the ACL as usually their hamstring muscles are under developed and the quad is over developed which does not provide enough support to the ACL itself. The center of gravity is lower on a female and they land up to five times their body weight. When a female braces herself against a wall with their back hand so she can lift and turn her hip ask them when they feel stronger, when the knee goes out first and then rotates or when the knee cap is directed under them. Those we have tested say when the knee cap goes a little outward first then rotates. In our opinion and some trainers this is a safer "move" especially for the females and especially the younger females because the damage to the ACL is on going and cumulative and when they are about 19 years old snap goes the ACL and the male coaches are no where to be found to be held accountable for their lack of understanding of what they were teaching!

The "move" still happens however it is just a little different in the females at initiation of the heel lift where the weight is focused in the big toe and toe next to it.

 

[coachdan]

The "move"......see thread 185

If you are really looking at the girl in red swing, she landed open and flat footed and the back knee comes under her! That is wrong anyway. You cannot compare a male who has narrower hips, very little Q angle, an ACL that is different as to structure where the ACL actually passes through, hamstring to quad is almost balanced and that the glutes actually fire the knee upon jumping or landing and less spacing between the legs. Center of gravity is higher and we jump and land at about 2.5 times our body weight.

The female hips are wider, the glutes do not fire the ACL, as it must be taught to them, the ACL were it passes through can rub when the ACL is out of position and the hips rotate better when the knee is thrusted by lifting the heel first and the weight is from the big toe and toe next to it and the knee cap is basically pointed towards the second baseman's normal playing position first as a right handed hitter. Then the hips rotate more efficiently and safely. When the knee is directed more under them there is more stress on the ACL as usually their hamstring muscles are under developed and the quad is over developed which does not provide enough support to the ACL itself. The center of gravity is lower on a female and they land up to five times their body weight. When a female braces herself against a wall with their back hand so she can lift and turn her hip ask them when they feel stronger, when the knee goes out first and then rotates or when the knee cap is directed under them. Those we have tested say when the knee cap goes a little outward first then rotates. In our opinion and some trainers this is a safer "move" especially for the females and especially the younger females because the damage to the ACL is on going and cumulative and when they are about 19 years old snap goes the ACL and the male coaches are no where to be found to be held accountable for their lack of understanding of what they were teaching!

The "move" still happens however it is just a little different in the females at initiation of the heel lift where the weight is focused in the big toe and toe next to it.

sbfamily...can you explain "the move"

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The "move"......see thread 185

If you are really looking at the girl in red swing, she landed open and flat footed and the back knee comes under her! That is wrong anyway. You cannot compare a male who has narrower hips, very little Q angle, an ACL that is different as to structure where the ACL actually passes through, hamstring to quad is almost balanced and that the glutes actually fire the knee upon jumping or landing and less spacing between the legs. Center of gravity is higher and we jump and land at about 2.5 times our body weight.

The female hips are wider, the glutes do not fire the ACL, as it must be taught to them, the ACL were it passes through can rub when the ACL is out of position and the hips rotate better when the knee is thrusted by lifting the heel first and the weight is from the big toe and toe next to it and the knee cap is basically pointed towards the second baseman's normal playing position first as a right handed hitter. Then the hips rotate more efficiently and safely. When the knee is directed more under them there is more stress on the ACL as usually their hamstring muscles are under developed and the quad is over developed which does not provide enough support to the ACL itself. The center of gravity is lower on a female and they land up to five times their body weight. When a female braces herself against a wall with their back hand so she can lift and turn her hip ask them when they feel stronger, when the knee goes out first and then rotates or when the knee cap is directed under them. Those we have tested say when the knee cap goes a little outward first then rotates. In our opinion and some trainers this is a safer "move" especially for the females and especially the younger females because the damage to the ACL is on going and cumulative and when they are about 19 years old snap goes the ACL and the male coaches are no where to be found to be held accountable for their lack of understanding of what they were teaching!

The "move" still happens however it is just a little different in the females at initiation of the heel lift where the weight is focused in the big toe and toe next to it.

Despite the differences that you mention between men and woman, the solution is not necessarily swinging differently, but in educating females to train differently/better.

I do not believe there is a difference between men and woman in terms of performing "the move".

Athletes can reduce their risk of ACL injuries by performing training drills that require balance, power and agility. Adding plyometric exercises, such as jumping, and balance drills helps improve neuromuscular conditioning and muscular reactions and ultimately shows a decrease in the risk of ACL injury. Many team physicians now routinely recommend an ACL conditioning program, especially for their female players.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

SBF ... thought I'd throw out a few hand/bat positions I collected at one point and see if one of these comes close to what you believe is best.

For young girls 8 - 12 YOs, do you think they have the hand strength to grip the bat using "the professional bat position" above? My DD is taught to have firm, strong wrists to maintain the bat angle at POC and I don't think she would have as much control and grip pressure on the bat if the bat handle was out at the finger tips this far. When you take a 20oz bat (for example) and then start the swing, the bat generates an exponential amount of force to the hands gripping the bat which is difficult for the player to control. Would it not make more sense to start with the bat handle more in the palm of the hand and as the hitter gets older and stronger, start moving the grip out towards the fingers?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

SoCal ... my personal emphasis in terms of the grip is with the wrist angle. From my perspective, it is the wrist angle that should be viewed first, and the grip should accommodate that.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

SoCal ... my personal emphasis in terms of the grip is with the wrist angle. From my perspective, it is the wrist angle that should be viewed first, and the grip should accommodate that.

So are you suggesting that the batter's grip should have the greatest amount of wrist angle flexibility that still allows good, strong contact with the bat? For professional hitters, they have very strong wrists and hands and can "getaway" with the bat farther out towrds the finger tips, while the average youth hitter should place the bat handle closer towards the palm?

 

[cshilt]

For young girls 8 - 12 YOs, do you think they have the hand strength to grip the bat using "the professional bat position" above?

Yes.

Neither age or relative hand strength has anything to do with it. This is a bio-mechanical reality. The bat isn't at the fingertips, nor does the hand stay open when the bat is actually gripped. The handle rolls into the pads of the fingers as they wrap around the handle. If you look at the middle two fingers you'll see that the bat lines up in the proximal interphalangeal joints (middle knuckles) and not in the finger tips. This is desired as the middle two fingers are the "gripper" fingers and are stronger than the index and pinky fingers. There is a reason that you open a jar with the pressure on these two fingers. There is a reason you grip a hammer with the "professional" grip and the same principle applies to holding a bat.