Who's call is it anyway?

[CoachJ5513]

In a two umpire game.
Runners on 2nd & 3rd
Field umpire positioned behind shortstop
Line drive hit to shallow center
runner on third returns to bag then advances toward home prior to catch
CF mades sliding catch and throws to third

?1) Is field umpire in correct position?

?2) Who has the "catch" call?

?3) Can tag up call be appealed? (if he was watching for tag up his back would be to ball & vice versa)

Just hoping for some clarification. Disagreed with call on 3rd and ump in field refused to appeal play.

 

[Comp]

In 2 umpire system, all fly balls are typically the call of the plate ump. Sometimes they will deviate with no runners on base and a ball right down the right field line. In those situations, sometimes the base ump will take the fly ball.

With runners on base, all fly balls would be the plate umps in a 2 ump system. All tag up responsibilities for the runner at 3rd are also the plate umps. The runner at 2nd is the responsibility of the base umpire.

(corrected)

 

[honus14]

1) Yes. That's called Position C.

2) PU typically has all catch/no catch calls. (Comp, you did mean to say this in your second paragraph, right?) BU should be coming inside the diamond.

3) PU has the ability to line up the play and see both the catch and the touch of third, so PU has the tag-up at third also. If by "appeal" you mean "ask the other umpire to overrule his partner," no, you can't do that. Are you saying the BU made the call in the first place, after you properly appealed?

 

[BretMan]

These are the little details that make the two-umpire system work. They're laid out in the umpire manual and, ideally, should be gone over by the umpires before the game. When the guidelines aren't followed...chaos can ensue!

Agree with the above- plate umpire has the catch/no catch call in all circumstances, except if the base umpire goes out on a fly ball. Plate umpire has tag up/runner leaving early call on a runner at third.

 

[coach D'E]

Here is a situation that happens at least once per season: No runners on and a pop fly is hit to shallow right or center field. The ball is not caught cleanly by the outfielder (it hits the ground). The Home Plate umpire rules a catch. The Base Umpire is closer to the play. Should the umpire with a better view make the call? The Base Umpire is typically less than 30' away from some of these plays.

 

[FPMark]

If you think the Plate Ump made the wrong call, you can ask him if he would mind asking the Base Ump what he saw. Usually they will, just to make sure the call is correct. Just don't ask the BU to overrule the PU, he can't. But if asked by the PU for his opinion, the BU may convence the PU to change his call.

 

[BretMan]

Here is a situation that happens at least once per season: No runners on and a pop fly is hit to shallow right or center field. The ball is not caught cleanly by the outfielder (it hits the ground). The Home Plate umpire rules a catch. The Base Umpire is closer to the play. Should the umpire with a better view make the call? The Base Umpire is typically less than 30' away from some of these plays.

"Closeness" isn't necessarily the end-all and be-all of making this call. Some things to consider:

- The plate umpire is facing the play to begin with. The base umpire has his back to the outfield. Which one do you think has the best chance of tracking the ball all the way from the bat to the outfielder?

- The plate umpire should be moving out from behind the plate and into the infield to get closer to the catch. When he does that, he really isn't so much farther away than the base umpire would be- at least no measurably far enough that his view of the catch is going to be all that inferior.

- If the base umpire is pivoting into the infield (which he should be on most balls to the outfield) he should not even be looking at the outfielder! His responsibility is watching the batter-runner approach, touch and round first base. Suppose the batter-runner misses first base. If you're the defensive coach and want to appeal the missed base, I'm sure you would rather have the umpire who is right there watching the base make the call. And I'm sure you wouldn't be too happy if neither umpire was watching this! Same if the batter-runner is obstructed. If both umpires are watching the outfielder, who's going to see the obstruction?

- The umpire manual offers very clear guidelines on which umpire has the catch. If base umpire pivots in, he has the batter-runner and watches for her touching the base and any possible obstruction.

If the base umpire does not pivot in, he goes to the outfield and has the catch. Plate umpire then has the batter-runner all the way around the bases.

On this play you have two sets of eyes to watch two different things and the umpire guidelines are very clear on who is supposed to be doing what. Where you can have a problem is when either umpire abandons his responsibility and doesn't watch what he's supposed to! Then you have either a missed call or two umpires making a call on the same play- which they might skate by with as long as they both make the same call. If they make opposite calls...now the fun really begins!

 

[BretMan]

If you think the Plate Ump made the wrong call, you can ask him if he would mind asking the Base Ump what he saw. Usually they will, just to make sure the call is correct. Just don't ask the BU to overrule the PU, he can't. But if asked by the PU for his opinion, the BU may convence the PU to change his call.

Here again, if the umpires are doing what they're supposed to the base umpire probably won't even be looking at the outfielder.

 

[CoachJ5513]

The problem here was the base umpire is watching tag up at 3rd with his back to the catch. The girl came back to the bag, but had left before the ball was caught. He refused to allow appeal based on seeing the runner tag up. I thought 3rd base was HP call.