The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[FastPitchCat]

I can get with Kempf regarding seeing the replant in real time. That is a tough one to spot. But the two foot jump and being a foot outside the pitching lane? Inexcusable! Not a single call all year.

yes! the left foot outside of the pitching lane is something super OBVIOUS. no need to slow-mo instant replay, just open your eyes and make the call.

 

[marriard]

It would be neat to see a frame by frame comparison of Barnhill and Adam Folkard like was done with Barnhill and Ocasio. All I can think of is men's style when I see Barnhill pitch.

On a seperate note, this issue is rapidly becoming a common argument with my DD. She knows she can throw harder being a skippy and is starting to ask how it can be illegal if it never gets called and all these famous people insist it isn't illegal and Barnhill is just that damn good. There are a couple of skippy's in her age group that she will eventually compete with for playing time in school ball. She is better than either right now but knows, or rather thinks she could be considerably better than either if she could throw like they do. It is really hard to convince a 12 yr old that doing the right thing is best when he wrong thing is so clearly rewarded.

Thanks skippy defenders!

My biggest concern is that they decide to change the rules to just allow skippies after my DD has spent a lot of time making sure she is legal and has good mechanics to be that way.

 

[pumpkinbear]

Ken - if you look at most elite batters, they have very little weigh and push generated from the rear leg (if fact as the bat comes into contact with the ball many elite batters back foot is completely off the ground). If the back foot generated so much "torque" you would see elite hitters keeping that back foot planted hard into the dirt for leverage?

No. The back foot power for hitters and (and replanters, IMO) comes from rotation, not push.

The back foot in most elite hitters (not an Ichero-type slapper) generates enough torque (by triggering the muscles that would externally rotate their back foot if it wasn't firmly planted) that the rotation of the back hip lifts the heel.

IMO, this is a huge (and unfair) advantage in that a replanter like Barnhill has much more powerful hip rotation than is possible for a leap-and-dragger.

 

[Rocketech1]

It really de-legitamizes (is that a word) the sport IMHO.

Did Cat Osterman de-legitimize the sport when she pitched illegally for Team USA? With DVR now and slow motion frame by frame review of all D1 pitchers footwork, probably 25% or more of the colleges have skippers and/or pitchers that stride outside the 24 inch lines at least some of the time. Just watched Kaitlin Lee of Ol'Miss leaping on every pitch. Just a random game I recorded from earlier this week. This isn't an isolated incident with KB, it's everywhere in fastptich. If and when they start enforcing all of the pitching rules the games will come to a screeching halt. As I said before, it's a very broken system and KB is just a by product of it.

 

[riseball]

Did Cat Osterman de-legitimize the sport when she pitched illegally for Team USA? With DVR now and slow motion frame by frame review of all D1 pitchers footwork, probably 25% or more of the colleges have skippers and/or pitchers that stride outside the 24 inch lines at least some of the time. Just watched Kaitlin Lee of Ol'Miss leaping on every pitch. Just a random game I recorded from earlier this week. This isn't an isolated incident with KB, it's everywhere in fastptich. If and when they start enforcing all of the pitching rules the games will come to a screeching halt. As I said before, it's a very broken system and KB is just a by product of it.

Wrong again. More of the ludicrious skippie enabler talking points. Huge difference between happening to be legal and being a cheat. Trying to legitimize a cheat at the expense of Cat is both sad and desperate. Barnhill is a cheat plain and simple. Different as night and day.

 

[Rocketech1]

Wrong again. More of the ludicrious skippie enabler talking points. Huge difference between happening to be legal and being a cheat. Trying to legitimize a cheat at the expense of Cat is both sad and desperate. Barnhill is a cheat plain and simple. Different as night and day.

Have you watched Cat's mechanics, she leaps off the ground and replants every time. She gets a pass but somehow KB is the cheat. Nice selective outrage. Do I need to post more videos of Cat?

 

[FastPitchCat]

Did Cat Osterman de-legitimize the sport when she pitched illegally for Team USA? With DVR now and slow motion frame by frame review of all D1 pitchers footwork, probably 25% or more of the colleges have skippers and/or pitchers that stride outside the 24 inch lines at least some of the time. Just watched Kaitlin Lee of Ol'Miss leaping on every pitch. Just a random game I recorded from earlier this week. This isn't an isolated incident with KB, it's everywhere in fastptich. If and when they start enforcing all of the pitching rules the games will come to a screeching halt. As I said before, it's a very broken system and KB is just a by product of it.

yes, there are other pitchers besides barnhill. there's carlson, and silkwood to name a few. how about that oregon pitcher that was called for an IP twice due to leaping? she corrected herself in subsequent pitches.
now that is a HUGE difference between knowing it was wrong then fixing it and doing it anyway because it WONT BE CALLED AND BE GLORIFIED FOR IT.

if other pitchers like kaitlin lee strides beyond the 24" lane, CALL IT IP!
if 25% of college pitchers pitch illegally, CALL IT IP!

And if they don't start enforcing all the rules, women's fastpitch will end up like men's fastpitch.
So what happens now to those who have trained their DD's to be LEGAL? sorry? fair? NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT!

oh, and one more thing. you mentioned 25% of college pitchers are illegal. change the rules to make them legal?
what have you done to those 75% who were legal? fair to them?

 

[Swim Coach]

Obviously, she knows that she's illegal. She's not doing it for no reason. She does it because she believes it gives her an advantage. If not, she would not be doing it. Based on the results, it does give her an advantage, most likely because she pitches unlike any other pitcher, making it difficult to be ready for her. When it's something you only see one series a year, it's just not possible to be prepared for it like a conventional (read legal) pitcher.

And I don't care about what Osterman did, I care what's happening now. I've been a softball fan for about 6 years, and DD is a first year 14U pitcher. She's striving to do everything she can to get better, legally. When I see this, I see what has been mentioned before - a few "elite" pitchers who don't have to worry about getting called while I've seen a girl or two get called at local 12U tournaments every week for things much less egregious.

 

[corlay]

With Barnhill, I see her getting strong front side resistance, bicep brush interference, IR (albeit not Ueno level of rotation), and as Corlay mentioned very good overlap and lag into release. She also generates excellent spin with her lower arm and fingers as she demonstrated a few weeks ago on an ESPN segment during the Florida game. Lastly she is extremely accurate, throwing her riseball on three different planes, at will.

"strong front side resistance" - I dont think so. Look at her in Knight's still frames. Hinged at the waist at release. That's leaking energy in my book.

"bicep brush inferference" - um... that's not a thing. She leaps and turns open. If anything, she clears her hips and gets zero brush interference. (in the Rick Pauly definition)

"extremely accurate" - that's an impressive thing with her. With those mechanics, its pretty incredible how accurate she really is.

last thing to add: everyone can just drop the witch hunt that she plants outside the pitching lane. Yes, Knight's gif shows her doing it, but it is an anomoly based upon what I am seeing watching her pitch a full game. Barnhill is no Carlson in this regard.

 

[WaNole]

http://twitter.com/FloSoftball/status/862407136768401408


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