Need an Out Pitch ~ confused on what direction to go

[catchermom13]

I apologize in advance as I stumble through this thread probably asking too many questions. DD in off season continuing to work on DM, but also on a new pitch. Some background - she just turned 14, 8th grade. Strength is hitting her spots. Best pitch has been her change up, but has been working on her rise for over a year and it is quickly becoming her best. Coach wants a tumbling pitch to compliment the rise. DD learned peel drop years ago before changing to IR mechanics. Could never really throw it well so abandoned it. Focus shifted to IR mechanics, then to rise. Has now been taught the turnover drop. It is not easy or natural like the rise was for her (the natural part). Coach now wants a curveball, something the batters chase when she's ahead in count. My questions are these: Should we table the turnover drop and go back to trying the peel by focusing on releasing a fastball earlier with middle finger pressure? Should we keep on with the turnover as she is getting some success with it - maybe having the turnover as more of an off speed drop? Or should we table all drops and have her try a curve since the rise came more naturally to her? She needs that "out pitch" as she induces lots of ground balls and pop ups, but not a lot of strike outs.

 

[sluggers]

Before we go further, let's define "curve ball". In baseball, a curve ball is a drop ball--it has 12-6 spin. In softball, we are talking about a ball with some sideways spin, usually 1-7 or 2-8 spin.

The only pitcher I've seen throw a curve is Cat Osterman, and she has 2-8 spin on the ball. There will be lots of posts by people saying they have someone who throws a curve...but, there does not seem to be any evidence of a kid throwing a curve.

Additionally, there are lots of highly respected pitchers who say that learning a softball curve is a waste of time--it isn't a very good pitch.

So, ditch the curveball.

The turn over drop is actually quite similar to an IR fastball.

So, stick with the turn over.

 

[riseball]

So Sarah Pauly is unable to throw a curve and the method advocated by Rick Pauly is just a myth?

Sarah Pauly Curve

Despite any claims to the contrary, the truth is that plenty of pitcher throw legitimate curve balls with with 3 - 9 spin. I have have personally taught the pitch to many a pitcher. As far as "evidence" if you attend a decent showcase like a Diamond 9 or good college game with decent pitching, so long as you open your eyes and are not blinded by bias you will have no problem seeing the pitch. Now if we are going to talk about a pitch to be avoided it is without question the "turnover drop". Although it is interesting to watch all the silly gyrations that occur well after the horse has left the barn.

 

[JAD]

If she can throw a change up and a riseball, how many other "out" pitches does she need? Is she does not want to learn to throw a curveball, throw an outside fastball after a slight step across the power line. It will put a little more angle on the pitch.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Haven't seen many (any?) 14 year olds with a riseball. Most 14 year olds aren't throwing in the upper 50s/lower 60s

She throws that fast and isn't getting many K's? Is she playing 18u?

The math doesn't add up.

 

[catchermom13]

Haven't seen many (any?) 14 year olds with a riseball. Most 14 year olds aren't throwing in the upper 50s/lower 60s

She throws that fast and isn't getting many K's? Is she playing 18u?

The math doesn't add up.

I didn't start the thread to get in an argument about how many pitches my dd can throw or how great she can throw them. She throws in the mid 50's and gets enough back spin to make her rise look deceptive enough for hitters to swing under it and pop it up. She isn't opposed to learning a curve ball, and I wondered if maybe it would be a more natural progression for her to learn that pitch versus a drop that she seems to struggle with. She plays on a 14U team but is playing against 16/18U teams right now in a dome league so she is throwing to some very good hitters. Sluggers I do like the idea of having that drop to compliment the rise though - but we sort of need to please the coach too...

 

[riseball]

2 seam FB is very effective, easy to learn, and break in or out. It has become my DD's primary pitch, complemented with a RB and CU. To your point about the rise it is certainly effective even at 50 mph.

 

[catchermom13]

2 seam FB is very effective, easy to learn, and break in or out. It has become my DD's primary pitch, complemented with a RB and CU. To your point about the rise it is certainly effective even at 50 mph.

So it's a 2 seam fastball? Can you elaborate on that and how it breaks as opposed to a 4 seam fastball? DD throws a 2 seam rise and likes that better than the 4 seam...

 

[sluggers]

Rise...I started another thread. The ball thrown by Sarah does *NOT* have 9-3 spin. It has bullet spin.

Now if we are going to talk about a pitch to be avoided it is without question the "turnover drop". Although it is interesting to watch all the silly gyrations that occur well after the horse has left the barn.

My DD got about $100,000 in scholarships and a nice "MAC All Conference Plaque" because she threw the rollover. (Do I really need to post her beating Purdue *again*?)

It is obvious you don't understand the rollover drop. As you know, the follow through is indicative of the motion prior to and at release of the ball. The "crazy gyration" follow-through reflects the movement of the arm prior to and at release.

 

[riseball]

So it's a 2 seam fastball? Can you elaborate on that and how it breaks as opposed to a 4 seam fastball? DD throws a 2 seam rise and likes that better than the 4 seam...

This should help: http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/22765-two-seamers.html