Lost my 2012 rulebook, so I thought I would ask about an out at 1B

[MTR]

Just as it would be if the ball were held against the body, a wall, a fence, another player, it is not in possession and control until the player holds it in his/her hands/glove/both with complete control

 

[kcostello]

Just as it would be if the ball were held against the body, a wall, a fence, another player, it is not in possession and control until the player holds it in his/her hands/glove/both with complete control

MTR, just for my clarity, so if a player ends up with the ball in not in her hand but captured against her with an arm, say snugly in the crook of her elbow against her chest, generally speaking you would not consider that control?

You would not rule control until the player extricates it from the snug location and shows you that she has it in her hand/glove, correct?

 

[BretMan]

MTR, just for my clarity, so if a player ends up with the ball in not in her hand but captured against her with an arm, say snugly in the crook of her elbow against her chest, generally speaking you would not consider that control?

You would not rule control until the player extricates it from the snug location and shows you that she has it in her hand/glove, correct?

Not MTR here, but...

This is precisely what is required by the rule book and defined through interpretive literature. Control of the ball must be demonstrated by holding the ball securely in the bare hand or glove.

Having the ball trapped against the body with the arms, crook of elbow, etc. does not meet the rules-based definition of "secure control".

 

[rhutchison002]

I came to this forum today, because this exact situation happened to my 12U team yesterday. Hard grounder to P who bobbled the ball and rushed the throw. 1B dropped the ball then covered it with her bare hand an instant before the BR reached the bag. There were no other base runners, and 1B did not attempt to pick up the ball until after the Ump made the call, which was out. I was coaching at first and asked Ump to explain the call. He simply said it was a legal catch. Personally, I felt the BR should have been safe since there was almost no time to establish control even while the ball was on the ground. Only 1 Ump in this game so he made the call from in front of home plate.

I realize this was a judgment call, but glad to see there are others with a similar POV on what constitutes secure control.

 

[BearFlagFan]

I realize this was a judgment call, but glad to see there are others with a similar POV on what constitutes secure control.

Not so fast - if the PU saw even a tiny bit of air between the ball and the ground and it was a bang-bang play, its reasonable for the PU to judge control and have it touching the ground in the process of being lifted from the ground. Normally the plate is not the best place to make a 1B call, but the PU should have a really clear view of the ball. If her fingers are wrapped around the ball and she's staying in that position to keep her foot on 1B, I might call it an out.

This is really why its a judgment call, and we can't substitute out own judgment for the umpire making the call.

 

[MTR]

Speaking ASA, the player must pick-up the ball to demonstrate control prior to the runner contacting the base.