Lost my 2012 rulebook, so I thought I would ask about an out at 1B

[kcostello]

No runners on. Hit to SS, who throws the ball to 1B. Throw is a little off target. 1B knocks it down but does not have it yet....she reaches down and grasps it with her barehand...

Now, the ball is on the ground....she has it in her hand.....the runner hits the base.

Is she out or safe since 1B never picked the ball up, just held it there on the ground?

If it matters to anyone, she held it there for a good 1-2 seconds before the runner hit the bag.

I believe she was waiting for an out call.....

 

[Comp]

All depends on if the umpire judged her to have control of the ball or not. Different umpires may have differing judgement of what constitutes control.

 

[shockcoach]

As always, Comp is right on. The rulebook says control, so it's now up to the judgment of the umpire.

 

[kcostello]

Thanks Comp and ShockCoach. I thought that is what the rule said. Now the umped called the girl safe, but he called her safe because, in his words, more or less, the 1B did not pick up the ball.

He used the word possession rather than control. His statement was that until she picked it up she did not have possession of the ball.

I think resolving a control question might be gnarly. I will have to the control word in mind in case it happens when I am umpiring a game.

Thanks again!

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I played 1st base all of my career. I wouldn't expect an out called, if I had the ball in my bare hand and the ball was against the ground. I would consider it the same at trapping the ball against the ground with my glove.

 

[tghorley]

Dang, some very good questions asked and some very good answers in the rules section lately. I always take a rules question or two to tournaments so a friend of mine and I can have a discussion. Of course he thinks I am a genius for knowing the answers. What is really funny is when we can get an umpire involved.

 

[Momo'sDad]

All depends on if the umpire judged her to have control of the ball or not. Different umpires may have differing judgement of what constitutes control.

We teach our young players to pick the ball up, just to be on the safe side, but we have seen some umpires call the BR out at 1B in that situation which, IMHO, was the right call.

Note: There have been a lot more opportunities at 1B, but we've never seen an ump give the out call at 2B, 3B, or home unless control of the ball was indisputable.

 

[FPump]

All depends on if the umpire judged her to have control of the ball or not. Different umpires may have differing judgement of what constitutes control.

I can't see where in the sequence of this play (as described) the umpire could have judged that F3 ever had control.....

1)SS throws ball to 1B
2)1B knocks it down
3)But does not have it yet
4)She reaches down and grasps it with her barehand
5)Now the ball is on the ground
6)She has it in her barehand
7)1B never picked up the ball, just held it there on the ground

I don't have control, I don't have a catch. I've got a safe call.

 

[Comp]

I can't see where in the sequence of this play (as described) the umpire could have judged that F3 ever had control.....

1)SS throws ball to 1B
2)1B knocks it down
3)But does not have it yet
4)She reaches down and grasps it with her barehand
5)Now the ball is on the ground
6)She has it in her barehand
7)1B never picked up the ball, just held it there on the ground

I don't have control, I don't have a catch. I've got a safe call.

And I would tend to agree with that call. Until I see the ball actually leave the ground and the defensive player demonstrate control of the ball I personally would rule no control. But, I was making the point that control is the umpires judgement, and some umpires may see the bare hand closed around the ball and consider that to demonstrate control. As a player I would always get the ball off the ground and show it to the umpire. As an umpire I want to see the same demonstration of control of the ball.

 

[JAD]

It is a judgement call, but most umpires I know will not give the 1B the out unless she picks the ball up and shows control of the ball.