Look Back Rule

[Westwind]

We had two games where our batter drew a walk, ran full speed to first, turned without slowing down or stopping and ran to second.

TomD the runner can do what you describe in every sanction I am aware of.

There may be a local rule in rec leagues to prevent it though. That is probably the first question you have to answer.

If they sent your runners back without calling them out, I tend to think there was a local league rule in play here.

 

[TomD]

TomD the runner can do what you describe in every sanction I am aware of.

There may be a local rule in rec leagues to prevent it though. That is probably the first question you have to answer.

Thanks.

Our local rule is: On a walk, the batter-runner can continue past first base in accordance with ASA rules

From which I can assume that means regardless of whether the ball is in the circle. It does not factor in the idea that a runner could try to take advantage of a pitcher and/or fielder not paying attention in any other situation. (We had a bunch of players age out after last season so we are a young team that is struggling to compete, not using the rule to run up the score on weaker teams.)

 

[Crabby_Bob]

[...]

Our local rule is: On a walk, the batter-runner can continue past first base in accordance with ASA rules

Are your umpires interpreting this as a batter-runner may overrun first base on a walk, but not round and advance?
That's an incorrect interpretation, of course.

 

[TomD]

Are your umpires interpreting this as a batter-runner may overrun first base on a walk, but not round and advance?
That's an incorrect interpretation, of course.

Most of the umps and most of the leagues are allowing the runners to overrun first and advance, this is the first time we've had an issue but it happened two games in a row so I decided I had better learn the precise rule. One league we played has coaches, players, and an ump that were all relatively new to softball, the other league and ump should have known the rule. Neither game was close so it was not worth arguing but I wanted to have the rule handy to show the ump the next time this occurs. Of course it is a lot more complicated than I thought.

As far as runners taking advantage of this rule to run past second or third, I want to make sure that our pitchers know that this can happen and to stay alert.

 

[EdLovrich]

The easiest (not easy but easiest) way to get a handle on LBR is to break it down into its parts:

When does it go into effect:
1)Pitcher has possession and control of the ball. EDIT: AND
2)Pitcher is in the circle. EDIT: AND
3)Pitcher is not making an attempt on any runner nor is making a fake throw. EDIT: AND
4)The batter-runner has either reached first base or has been put out.

Once the LBR is in effect:

What may a runner do:
1) Any runner(s) in motion may continue without stopping or may stop once.
2) Any runner who is stopped or stops their motion must immediately move directly back to the last base touched or attempt to advance to the next base.

What may the runner NOT do:
1) Once the runner stops at a base for any reason, they may not move off that base.
2) A batter-runner who overruns first and does not without delay attempt to advance to second is committed to return to first and stop. (The interpretation for this is, I believe, in all rule sets, that the BR needs to turn left and advance towards second. If BR turn right, or if BR turns left and heads back towards first, she is committed to returning to 1B without liability to be put out. In other words, once the umpire determines the BR is protected returning to first, she may NOT attempt going to 2B.)
3) The runner, off base, may not stand motionless.

 

[TomD]

This is great, thank you. I wish there was a clearly written rule that I could reference to show the umps and opposing coaches, but at least I am now a lot more confident in what I am coaching our kids.

 

[Gags]

TomD - regardless of the rule being discussed - my advice would be to never show the ump a rule in the middle of a game. Maybe if it's a local rule, and it's a 10U rec game, you could offer to show it to him, but normally, bringing a rule book onto the field is (highly!) frowned upon. Pre-game meeting at the plate is the right time to bring up any local rules / exceptions.

 

[jackfrost]

I've been coaching 12u rec league softball for a couple years now with kids who are all new to softball in the same time frame, I thought I understood the Look Back Rule but after a couple calls last weekend I'm not sure. We had two games where our batter drew a walk, ran full speed to first, turned without slowing down or stopping and ran to second. Both times the umps and opposing coaches conferred and sent our runner back to first based on the pitcher having had the ball in the circle prior to the runner reaching first. I'm fairly certain that the umps made the wrong call there but in reading a number of threads on the topic it appears that the rule is much more complicated than I thought. I have a question and a few assumptions I'd like to confirm.

• I can't figure out the difference between the Look Back Rule and Continuation Rule for a walk. If a runner is heading to a base and the pitcher has the ball in the circle, are they always allowed to continue to the next base or does this only apply to the batter who walked continuing to second?
• Once the pitcher has the ball in the circle the runner is allowed one and only one direction change and it must be without hesitating or stutter stepping. If the runner is already stopped they must immediately select a direction and move, however they can go at any pace.
• The runner is allowed one and only one stop after the Look Back Rule is in effect, they can use that stop at any time when they are not on a base.
• The pitcher must have control of the ball, both feet on or in the circle, and not be making any throwing motion in order for the Look Back Rule to apply.

Thanks

Based on what you wrote you seem to understand the Look Back Rule correctly. Here si a couple of comments.

You have to be careful between real softball rules and modifications put into Rec league rules. At lower levels (8U and sometimes 10U) the rec rules do not let a runner advance past 1B on a walk. But real softball does allow advancement as long as no violation of the Look Back Rule. Ball in the circle does not prevent advancement beyond 1B if you are playing real softball rules. Check your rec rules to see what it says about advancing beyond 1B and have it available to show the umpires.
Not sure any alphabet has a "Continuation Rule". Probably a rec rule thing.
You said "not be making any throwing motion". It does not have to be a throwing motion. Any motion that causes a runner to react can temporarily take off the Look Back Rule.

Hope this helps.

 

[TomD]

TomD - regardless of the rule being discussed - my advice would be to never show the ump a rule in the middle of a game. Maybe if it's a local rule, and it's a 10U rec game, you could offer to show it to him, but normally, bringing a rule book onto the field is (highly!) frowned upon. Pre-game meeting at the plate is the right time to bring up any local rules / exceptions.

Good thought, I coached little league baseball for a bunch of seasons before making the good switch to softball and haven't had to pull out the rule book yet. I just want to make sure that I'm confident in the interpretation that I'm coaching the kids.

 

[TomD]

Based on what you wrote you seem to understand the Look Back Rule correctly. Here si a couple of comments.

You have to be careful between real softball rules and modifications put into Rec league rules. At lower levels (8U and sometimes 10U) the rec rules do not let a runner advance past 1B on a walk. But real softball does allow advancement as long as no violation of the Look Back Rule. Ball in the circle does not prevent advancement beyond 1B if you are playing real softball rules. Check your rec rules to see what it says about advancing beyond 1B and have it available to show the umpires.
Not sure any alphabet has a "Continuation Rule". Probably a rec rule thing.
You said "not be making any throwing motion". It does not have to be a throwing motion. Any motion that causes a runner to react can temporarily take off the Look Back Rule.

Hope this helps.

I got the continuation reference from one or two of the sites I Googled, it's not in our rulebook. Our rules don't even explicitly reference the LBR, they just say that advancing beyond first is allowed on a walk with no other specifics. Other leagues that we play are aware of how the LBR is applied, we just hit two in a row that hadn't seen it and somehow neither had the umps.

Thanks