Look Back Rule

[flash277]

Now I understand that attempting to advance to 2nd after overturning first is an appeal play, but I don't quite understand what would you be appealing, can someone explain this and/ or give an example?

 

[Westwind]

@EdLovrich post above is good and covers it pretty well.

I like to think of LBR as a light switch. It can be on, then off, then back on. Usually the pitcher is in control of when it’s on or when it’s off.

 

[flash277]

So I guess the appeal would be a runner overturning first base, then making a move to come back, then running towards second base? If so, Isn't that a look back violation and should be called by the umpire?

 

[EdLovrich]

So I guess the appeal would be a runner overturning first base, then making a move to come back, then running towards second base? If so, Isn't that a look back violation and should be called by the umpire?

Exactly, this would not be an appeal, it is a straight up call by the umpire. You MIGHT get some traction coming out to talk after the fact to point out that what occurred was a LBR violation and hope to get the call late, but YMMV since if the umpire was aware of the rule and saw the situation he would have killed the play when it happened.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

Now I understand that attempting to advance to 2nd after overturning first is an appeal play, but I don't quite understand what would you be appealing, can someone explain this and/ or give an example?

Appeals must be made on specific rule violations on which an umpire may not make a decision until requested by a manager, coach, or player.

A runner who is not touching a base is out when tagged while the ball is live. There is an exception for a batter-runner who is allowed to touch and overrun first base. To qualify for the exception, the batter-runner must return directly to first base. It does not matter which direction the batter-runner turns. The batter-runner loses the protection by making an attempt to run to second base, however, the batter-runner must be tagged with the ball while not in contact with the base. This is an appeal to the umpire that the batter-runner attempted to run to second base. [USA 8.7.H, 8.8.I] This is always a live ball appeal.

So I guess the appeal would be a runner overturning first base, then making a move to come back, then running towards second base? If so, Isn't that a look back violation and should be called by the umpire?

Violations of the look-back rule are separate and are declared when observed by the umpire. The look-back rule requires certain actions by runners when in effect. [USA 8.7.T] These include which base may be attempted depending on which way the batter-runner turns and moves after overrunning first base.

 

[jackfrost]

So I guess the appeal would be a runner overturning first base, then making a move to come back, then running towards second base? If so, Isn't that a look back violation and should be called by the umpire?

Flash I don't see a full answer to you question above so I'll add my 2 cents.

In USA softball 8.7.H (I don't know if this is true in any other sanctions) it reads as follows:

When the batter-runner legally overruns first base, attempts to run to second base and is legally touched with the ball while not in contact with the base.

This is a little esoteric, but its not a Look-Back violation. The runner did everything legally. But if she actually commits to 2B, she is no longer protected by the rule that allows her to overrun and return directly to the base. Since she did not return directly to the base, she can be put out by a live ball appeal (a tag). Its a little fuzzy why its considered an appeal rather than just being tagged for being off the base. But this is clearly different than a Look-Back rule violation.

​

 

[flash277]

Thank you, I got it now, so it basically comes down if the umpire believes the runner made a big enough turn towards 2nd to lose the protection of returning to first, that’s the appeal.

 

[jackfrost]

Thank you, I got it now, so it basically comes down if the umpire believes the runner made a big enough turn towards 2nd to lose the protection of returning to first, that’s the appeal.

Just to be clear it's not the size of the turn but a commitment to 2nd base that activates the appeal situation.

 

[The Man In Blue]

A batter runner making a move to second and losing the protection of overrunning the bag is NOT an appeal play. It is simply a runner being tagged out.

 

[flash277]

A batter runner making a move to second and losing the protection of overrunning the bag is NOT an appeal play. It is simply a runner being tagged out.

We all know there are four appeals:

A. Missing a base, either advancing or returning (live or dead-ball appeal). B. Leaving a base on a caught fly ball before the ball is first touched (live or dead-ball appeal). C. Batting out of order (dead-ball appeal only). D. Attempting to advance to second base after making the turn at first base overrunning first base (live-ball appeal only).

So then, what is D?......I thought I understood it, but now I don't again, what is an example of that appeal?