Jordyn Bahl

[radness]

WOW... Debbie Doom, Rad? That's a name from the past. (GREAT name for a pitcher by the way). The assistant coach at Providence (still there coaching) is named Bree Nasti, I always thought that was a cool pitcher name too. Anyway, I never got to see Debbie but the legend lives on and I heard about her long ago. In fact, it speaks volumes that her name made it all the way to Pennsylvania where I grew up when there was no internet. That's how good she was.

The Doomer still on UCLA's home run wall.
She was not explosive,
Had really good control movement and different speeds. As a batter almost had to be patient through her mechanics and make an immediate decision on the pitch at release.

Very different than a pitcher like Michelle Granger who was a quick spaz with extreme higher velocity no control flying at you.

Believe they both played on the first Olympic team together

 

[Hillhouse]

The Doomer still on UCLA's home run wall.
She was not explosive,
Had really good control movement and different speeds. As a batter almost had to be patient through her mechanics and make an immediate decision on the pitch at release.

Very different than a pitcher like Michelle Granger who was a quick spaz with extreme higher velocity no control flying at you.

Believe they both played on the first Olympic team together

I can remember watching Michelle at the 1993 US Olympic Festival in San Antonio. The festivals were really cool, all the Olympic sports (and some non Olympic like men's fastpitch) were on display. That was my first selection to the US National team for the Pan Am tournament (in Mexico 1993). I had one of the best games of my entire career that tournament, a 2-1 victory in 9 innings vs. the reigning Nat'l Champs. 1993 the Olympic Festival was the top 4 teams from the previous year's ASA National tournament. In 1994 they changed the Festival completely and made it by invite only. The top 60 players in the country were put onto 4 different teams for a mini tournament. (Ok, I'm going to brag now: '94 my team won the Gold. Mike White and I were on the same team, it was the first year he had USA citizenship).

Anyway, Michelle had the best riseball I'd seen from a women's pitcher. And she threw with the wrong arm too! Rad, did you play with Michelle? Against her?

 

[Shiloh]

You are assuming that leaping allows pitchers to get meaningfully closer. It doesn’t. It may make a difference of a few inches, not feet and certainly not enough to materially alter reaction time. The fact that Bahl can get past the 8 foot line at her height is because she is an amazing athlete with remarkable drive. To me that’s what is interesting about her and worth studying. Not the fact that she violates a rule that a very large number of other less successful pitchers also violate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Leaving aside the dubiousness that “a few inches don’t matter” and whatever “it doesn’t alter the reaction time” means, the key point to this entire discussion is -

If a rule is repeatedly violated and violation does not result in enforcement or penalty, what is the point of its existence?

**************
Whether or not leaping gives Jordyn Bahl an advantage, how much of an advantage, whether other people violate the same rule, how often violations occur, who appoints the umpires, the role of the coaches in choosing the umpires, how heavy/light a teams’ schedule is, what division they play in, etc. etc. etc. - it doesn’t matter!

What matters is the rule set for the sport of softball. Either the rules matter and so must be enforced, or they don’t.
Pick one.

Anything less makes a mockery of the game.

**************

PS - Can anyone name a baseball rule which is repeatedly violated and, when violations happens, the officials just let it go? How about football? Basketball? Soccer? Hockey? Lacrosse? Track and field? Anyone?

 

[Shiloh]

Pitcher Debi Doom, who I've talked about several times on dfp,
Her normal pitching gate would land and erase the front line of the pitching Circle. From 40 feet, no leaping, no jumping just Mega stride from a really tall woman.

Batting agsinst her 6'2" or so,,, took some timing adjustment for sure. as she would start off really low with her arm, then raised way above her head (that was like nine feet in the air) and then come way down below her knee and release it. Visual obstacle while a giant shoe/cleat coming at you and her cleat landing on the pitching Circle and then the ball would shoot out.
Her hand seemed to have extra long fingers that the ball would just squeeze out of.
Very difficult to read because there was a lot of Limbs going on . It took a bit to figure that out....atleast multiple at bats and a case of luck!

If you didn't get to face her all season except for a few games over a weekend that could be very difficult. Or just have to finally play against her in Regionals or even the College World Series.
Difficult adjustments!

I think we might have found our too-tall riseball pitcher Bill. @Hillhouse

 

[jfitch12]

Either the rules matter and so must be enforced, or they don’t.
Pick one.

You should go spend a week in a local prosecutor’s office. Every day and twice on Tuesday, you’ll find rules that are being enforced, not enforced, and enforced one way by one person and another by a different person. And those are real rules that actually affect people’s lives—not the ones regulating a child’s game. Why don’t prosecutors enforce the rules all the time or not at all and in the same way without variation? Because it wouldn’t be practical or fair.

The problem with rules is that they don’t work or don’t work optimally in every situation. So we need people to decide whether, when, and how to apply them. The argument that “rules are rules” doesn’t account for this inherent limitation in all rules.

Here we have a rule that is very hard to apply and cannot be defended on the grounds that it improves the game at all. (There is no evidence that leaping confers an advantage, and calling a lot of illegal pitches is bad for viewership.) Moreover, if the rule could be applied consistently and to the hilt, half of all pitchers would be in violation. Given all that, doesn’t this seem like the sort of rule that might be good not to enforce? Maybe there are others that are equally worthy of being ignored (like presenting the ball, if that is still even a rule), but this seems pretty high on the list.

So why is there such a long thread about this topic—rather than something that might be useful about how Bahl actually pitches? It’s not because Bahl pitches illegally. It’s because she is really good and pitches illegally. People have called her out because of her skill and not because she is violating the rules, and they are using the “rules are rules” argument to either deny or ignore that fact.

So that’s my objection to all of this. The “rules are rules” argument is a huge oversimplification that people use all the time—and are using here—to disguise some other cognitive bias (whether they know it or not).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[_MIA_]

Do you front toss at a closer distance?

I have already stated multiple times in this thread that imo the main advantage is release point. It seems, from your previous post, that we are in agreement. I have also stated that I don’t think a light drag would effect that all that much, which you seem to disagree with.

 

[JayW]

I understand what you're saying. You have a point as far as arm circle speed. I don't think it slows down the arm speed. I don't see how. This is more about distance to the batter. If I am closer to the batter by 3 feet and my avg speed is 62mph you don't think I have and advantage. I'm just asking

3 feet?

 

[Westwind]

 

[_MIA_]

PS - Can anyone name a baseball rule which is repeatedly violated and, when violations happens, the officials just let it go? How about football? Basketball? Soccer? Hockey? Lacrosse? Track and field? Anyone?

Traveling in basketball and holding in football are two that come to mind. Also in baseball when the bases are unoccupied the pitcher is supposed to throw the ball within 12 seconds of receiving the ball or else a ball is called..you ever see that one enforced?

 

[Shiloh]

@jfitch12

Right, so it’s a child’s game - which makes non-enforcement even more of a head-scratcher. Plus, it’s just one rule, and staffing isn’t limited.

And thank you, you support my point exactly - if a rule is repeatedly violated and not enforced, why does it exist?

Also, the ultimate cognitive error, whether realized or not, is conflating cause with effect: Is Bahl really good which causes her to pitch illegally, or is she pitching illegally which causes her to be really good?

****

Quick pitching rules are probably the most enforced thing in the circle since they’re easy to see.