International Tie-Breaker Offensive Strategies

[Steve Huff]

I am trying to be as respectful as possible, but a steal to 3rd base? I don't know the statistics on safe steals to 3rd in NCAA, but I do know around my parts 14U TB catchers will gun you down unless you can catch them off guard or the SS is sleeping. I like being gutsy, but that is off the charts for me.

Steve, I liked your story on the steal home. You had to do something except pray for a hit out of a .130 batter.

When my TB team was a young 10U team I faced my first ITB, and i'll never forget it. I did not bunt the runner over because very few players on my team could bunt well. I had no confidence the kid at the plate could get the bunt down, so I let her swing away & ultimately we lost the game because of our inability to bunt. So, we worked and worked and worked on bunting from then on. A year later as an older 10U team, I got a compliment from an umpire in which he had no idea how good it made me feel...He said after a meaningless game that I had a great bunting team.

I love the pressure a good bunt inflicts!

I like seeing posts where coaching are exploring and thinking out of the box. I can't say that I do it that often. So I appreciate redhotcoach's post.

I agree that the steal option in NCAA would be very uncommon. I haven't seen it, but I also didn't have Natasha Whatley on my team. But the errors that could occur on a steal attempt could also take place on a bunt. I saw a college game once where the 3B and P bent down, hit heads, and both sat down backwards on the ground. Bad footwork on a bunt cost an otherwise good Czech Republic team a game at the European Championships. So I will grant redhotcoach that it might work sometimes, and with selective execution, the right players and defense, perhaps more often that I might think. But, I am a little cautious about using it.

BB875, there are moments that you can't get out of your head! It is like a video in my head.

 

[WinThemAll]

I can't argue that it is viable. I might also add that an overthrow is possible, as well as 3B getting in the way of the play, touching the ball, blocking the view, or moving back to the base, none of which she should be doing. It is one of those coaching guesses that can work. Sometimes you get bit in the shorts, and sometimes you get a slap on the butt!

This might be a good time to mention that runners should be looking at outfielder's positions before every pitch!

This would be a real possibility at 10s.

 

[Steve Huff]

This would be a real possibility at 10s.

I would have no idea pridefpsb17, I have never coached younger than 18U. It isn't my play. It isn't my idea. So I am not the one to defend it if you haven't done it. But I like that he suggested it and opened discussion. I don't think it deserves complete annihilation. I can't say if he has or hasn't ever done it successfully. I just know I have never seen it in DI ball or ISF international ball. That is all I can say.

 

[Ken Krause]

I've used a straight steal of third before, 14U NSA World Series so presumably good teams. I had a fast runner at second and the other team's defense was playing for the bunt. It was successful -- my runner got to third safely. But we failed to bring her in. Went four ITB innings before we finally got a few runs and won the game.

I agree on the fake bunt/slap (or do you call it slug?) with a steal. It's a pretty good percentage play, really. Think about it. The defense is expecting a bunt and playing for it, just like many have said here. So you show them what they're expecting. Third base charges hard, so she's now out of the play. Runner on second takes off, shortstop probably goes to cover the steal. But on the pull back for the slug she now has to make a decision. She either holds position to play for the slug, or she keeps going to third.

If the hitter gets the slug down properly and the shortstop has gone to cover third there's a giant hole in the infield. Depending on where the outfield is playing and the speed of the runner on second the runner may be able to get all the way home and you now have a runner on first with no outs. If the shortstop freezes to play the slug third is uncovered and your runner advances to third, even if it's a ball or a swing and miss. It's tough for the catcher to throw a runner out at third if no one is there to cover. If she throws with no fielder there your runner again may score from second.

If the shortstop freezes and the hitter slugs the ball on the ground to her the runner advances to third. The hitter may be out at first on the throw. But the throw may also go wrong or there may be another error which would give you runners at first and third with no outs and put even more pressure on the defense. So lots of good reasons to do it.

Your only real risk is if the hitter pops up. Then you're looking at two outs and no one on. Bummer.

As for whether it would happen in NCAA play, I actually learned that strategy at the NFCA coach's college. I think it was Jay Miller who suggested it. Not sure if he ever actually used it, but that's where I heard it.

And yeah, I got screwed on a slug and steal once. Not in an ITB but in a close game. We hadn't hit the other team's pitcher very well all game. Down a run in the bottom of the 7th with one out, leadoff hitter gets on first with a surprise bunt. She's fast and a good baserunner. #2 hitter comes up and I call for a slug and steal. Should be a no brainer because #2 could be #3 hitter on most teams. But #2 pops up, game over. Bummer.

 

[Steve Huff]

I've used a straight steal of third before, 14U NSA World Series so presumably good teams. I had a fast runner at second and the other team's defense was playing for the bunt. It was successful -- my runner got to third safely. But we failed to bring her in. Went four ITB innings before we finally got a few runs and won the game.

I agree on the fake bunt/slap (or do you call it slug?) with a steal. It's a pretty good percentage play, really. Think about it. The defense is expecting a bunt and playing for it, just like many have said here. So you show them what they're expecting. Third base charges hard, so she's now out of the play. Runner on second takes off, shortstop probably goes to cover the steal. But on the pull back for the slug she now has to make a decision. She either holds position to play for the slug, or she keeps going to third.

If the hitter gets the slug down properly and the shortstop has gone to cover third there's a giant hole in the infield. Depending on where the outfield is playing and the speed of the runner on second the runner may be able to get all the way home and you now have a runner on first with no outs. If the shortstop freezes to play the slug third is uncovered and your runner advances to third, even if it's a ball or a swing and miss. It's tough for the catcher to throw a runner out at third if no one is there to cover. If she throws with no fielder there your runner again may score from second.

If the shortstop freezes and the hitter slugs the ball on the ground to her the runner advances to third. The hitter may be out at first on the throw. But the throw may also go wrong or there may be another error which would give you runners at first and third with no outs and put even more pressure on the defense. So lots of good reasons to do it.

Your only real risk is if the hitter pops up. Then you're looking at two outs and no one on. Bummer.

As for whether it would happen in NCAA play, I actually learned that strategy at the NFCA coach's college. I think it was Jay Miller who suggested it. Not sure if he ever actually used it, but that's where I heard it.

And yeah, I got screwed on a slug and steal once. Not in an ITB but in a close game. We hadn't hit the other team's pitcher very well all game. Down a run in the bottom of the 7th with one out, leadoff hitter gets on first with a surprise bunt. She's fast and a good baserunner. #2 hitter comes up and I call for a slug and steal. Should be a no brainer because #2 could be #3 hitter on most teams. But #2 pops up, game over. Bummer.

I am glad you posted this. I can imagine it working, though it isn't something I dream about. But I tend to take a coach's word if he says he has done it. So that makes two of you! I like reading ideas outside the box if they are productive. I am not into the goofy, but productive is fine with me.

 

[Ken Krause]

Like anything else it all comes down to execution. You have to be pretty gutsy (or desperate) to try a steal in an ITB. It's not for the faint of heart. If it works you're a genius, but if it doesn't the townsfolk are coming after you with torches and pitchforks. You have to be willing to live with that.

 

[Steve Huff]

Like anything else it all comes down to execution. You have to be pretty gutsy (or desperate) to try a steal in an ITB. It's not for the faint of heart. If it works you're a genius, but if it doesn't the townsfolk are coming after you with torches and pitchforks. You have to be willing to live with that.

Ha! So true. I have been hesitant to pull the trigger more when I was younger. Now if they burn me at the stake I am old enough that I will probably be taking a nap when the toss the torch!

 

[jinjet95]

My DD team, 2nd yr 14U playing 16U in 6th innining of 0-0 game. Very few baserunners for either team. My DD, on 2B with 2 outs and #4 hitter up. DD realized pitcher was turning toward 1st after receiving the ball and decided to delay steal 3rd. Thank goodness she was safe as coach didn't know she was coming. (DD coach gives her green light unless given stop sign). All coach said to her was, "Pretty gutsy with 2 outs". #4 hitter singles up the middle and DD scores what turned out to be the winning run. This was in pool play, not sure I would try this in ITB in bracket play, but it sure worked this time.

 

[redhotcoach]

Like anything else it all comes down to execution. You have to be pretty gutsy (or desperate) to try a steal in an ITB. It's not for the faint of heart. If it works you're a genius, but if it doesn't the townsfolk are coming after you with torches and pitchforks. You have to be willing to live with that.

I think at some point before or early in the season you have to decide what kind of baserunning team you are going to be. If you are going to be extra aggressive you have to have everyone on the same page. The girls have to know that they are going to get caught quite a bit, and that is ok, it is just the way we play. If we didn't have good speed, I wouldn't do it. If we had great power up and down the line up, I wouldn't risk it.

 

[Steve Huff]

I think at some point before or early in the season you have to decide what kind of baserunning team you are going to be. If you are going to be extra aggressive you have to have everyone on the same page. The girls have to know that they are going to get caught quite a bit, and that is ok, it is just the way we play. If we didn't have good speed, I wouldn't do it. If we had great power up and down the line up, I wouldn't risk it.

The old axiom is, never make your first out at home plate, never make your first or third out at third base! I generally live by that, but at the same time, defenses do give gifts! Game tension does lead to mental and physical errors. The idea is to coach, not cheer or observe, and stick your emotions in your back pocket out of sight!