Illegal pitching

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Nov 14, 2011
446
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We just played our last indoor tournament and ran into another pitcher/coach combination that allows a player to pitch illegally. It was our first game into the tournament in which the loser was dropped to the "loser bracket". It was a good game with both teams putting a couple runs up and exchanging the lead a couple times within the first 4 innings. They went up 4-2 in the bottom of the 4th with time running down. We loaded the bases with no outs and then the drama started. The opposing coach made a pitching change and she was given 5 warm up pitches before facing her first batter. It was on her second warm up pitch that I noticed that not only was she the biggest crow-hopper that I have ever seen, she was stepping 8" ahead of the pitching rubber before she began her pitch. I pointed both issues out to our assistant coach who alerted the field umpire of the issue. We were seated on the third base side and the opposing teams head coach heard the problem and instantly began a verbal onslaught of negative comments, both to our coaches and parents. Not one time did we direct any of our comments towards the pitcher or the coach. Our coaching staff attempted to talk to the field up. The field umpire broke up the verbal argument by telling our coach that she wasn't illegal, and for him to coach and he would do the umpiring. The verbal argument continued by the opposing coach kept attacking our parents. Fast forward to Saturday to when one of our parents spoke to the UIC and showed him a series of photos that clearly showed the pitcher stepping ahead of the rubber and leaping 4" above the ground during her pitch sequence. He called the pitching "obviously illegal" and asked what time/diamond we played on and said that he would "take care of the problem".

As a parent of a pitcher I am very critical of illegal pitching. I will admit that it chaps me. I have been told by umpires that the pitcher is not gaining an advantage. My response was for the umpire to show me in the rule book where it gives a player the right to pitch as long as they don't gain an advantage. His response was that when the pitcher goes to State and National tournaments that the illegal pitch will be called then. My response? If it is illegal there, isn't it illegal now? The umpire walks away.....

So what is the proper way of getting the umpire to actually do their job and enforce the rules on illegal pitching? Obviously asking him to watch the pitcher throw where she crow hops isn't enough evidence. Informing the umpire that the foot must maintain contact with the ground doesn't work either. I highly doubt showing the umpire the rule book where it explains the legal way to pitch would work either....

I'm frustrated, but not because we lost the game. They are a better team, much better. The way that the umpire refused to do their job and even discuss the issue with our coaching staff is the frustrating part. To me, calling an illegal pitch is a very easy call, yet it never gets called.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,767
113
First thing I can point out, most umpires arent going to let you goad them into calling the illegal pitch. Going out and trying to talk to the umpire before she had even thrown a pitch in competition set up a situation where the other coach is going to claim you talked the umpire into it.

Second thing, you had bases loaded. The base umpire is responsible for the feet of the pitcher and watching for the leap. However, when you have base runners, the base umpires responsibilities more or less switch to watching the runners for infractions. Its a little hard to be watching the pitchers feet and 3 base runners all at the same time. You feel he should have been watching the pitcher, and the defensive coach would feel he should be watching the base runners.

The only thing I can suggest, if you have a pitcher that is obviously illegal and you do approach the umpire about it and you get the response of "she isnt gaining and advantage", they have just admitted they are seeing something but not calling it. I would then suggest to have the UIC brought out and discuss it with them. Yes, Illegal is illegal and should be called at all levels. Why let the girl pitch illegal for months at a time and then get nailed when it really does matter?
 
Aug 21, 2011
1,343
38
38°41'44"N 121°9'47.5"W
My suggestion would be to worry about your pitchers and not the other team's pitchers. Just make sure your girls are pitching legal and play the game. It takes too much time and energy fighting the battle on the opposing team's pitchers.

If they call it, they call it. If they don't, then hit the snot out of the ball and beat them on the field, rather than with the rulebook.
 
Nov 14, 2011
446
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I'm not following you at all. Are you advocating that other teams shouldn't care if another team is cheating? Heck, they should have 15 and 16 yo players on a U14 team, just as long as our team is legal?

Why wouldn't you want the rules followed by ALL players, including your competitors?
 
Feb 12, 2013
12
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I just recently came from umpire meeting where that issue was discussed. The end result was that the umps were not going to call it unless they positive of an infraction. It is the base umps responsibility to call, but difficult to see with base runners. Real difficult to call if pitchers hasnt actually thrown a pitch
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,767
113
I'm not following you at all. Are you advocating that other teams shouldn't care if another team is cheating? Heck, they should have 15 and 16 yo players on a U14 team, just as long as our team is legal?

Why wouldn't you want the rules followed by ALL players, including your competitors?

I believe his point is, you cant control the other team or the umpires. Work with what you can control which is your team.
 
Jan 18, 2010
4,270
0
In your face
Comp, this is not directed towards you, but can you shed some light on "why" umpires don't immediately call IP? We check bats ( best we can ) to make sure they are regulation, not illegal. Runners can't leave early, illegal. Etc etc.

Couple of years ago when I was a tad more hard headed, we were playing and the opposing pitcher was as illegal as a 7 dollar bill. So nicely I call time and approach the blue asking what he thought. ( mind you this is the first inning 2nd batter ) His words, "well.......let's not make a big deal of it ok". So I stare at him silent thinking, did I just hear that? :confused:

So when we took defense I told DD to grab her dirt in the circle, like she always does, but don't wipe it off her hands. First dang pitch blue calls IP, so I go out for another conversation. I ask, "what's wrong blue"? He says she's got to wipe her hand off, that's doctoring the ball and it's illegal. So I say..........."well......let's not make a big deal of it ok".

For some reason, maybe because we didn't get any close calls the rest of the game, I don't think he liked my response. :)
 
Nov 14, 2011
446
0
I believe his point is, you cant control the other team or the umpires. Work with what you can control which is your team.

I understand that point but at what point do you try to stand up for your team? Heck, after her 8" of stepping in front of the rubber and her crow hop she was pitching at 40' not 43'. At some point you need to draw a line and hold someone accountable, especially when the infraction is as easy to spot as she was.
 
Nov 14, 2011
446
0
Pitch1.jpg
She is easily 8" in front of the pitching rubber.

Pitch2.jpg
Hard to see this one by the photo but her foot is off the ground by 4-5".

I also failed to mention earlier that on several pitches she would also lift her right foot from the ground by 2" to start her pitch sequence. Again, that is cause for an illegal pitch. Three infractions that would warrant an IP call.

I cropped out the player's team logo because this isn't about her. This is about the umpires and coaches that allow this to happen.
 
Last edited:
Jun 27, 2011
5,083
0
North Carolina
A parent seated on the third base line is advising an assistant coach that the pitcher is illegal in a way that is audible to the other team, and then another parent is taking video of the violation to the UIC.

The question posed in the OP is a good one. But I question whether this kind of parental involvement is healthy.
 

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