I need a "bracket" pitcher? What exactly does that mean?

[GunnerShotgun]

I have seen situations where in game coaching has won the game, and we have all seen too many situations where in game coaching has lost games. Pitch calling is no different. My daughter pitches, and two summers ago she spent the entire summer as a pick-up player/bracket pitcher (No team dues and tournament fees was great). I am going to step on the toes of a lot of coaches, but the majority of the time an experienced catcher is far better at calling pitches than a coach. Now, some teams have the entire team wear the armband, and call shifts that match the pitch.

I disagree with almost everything you said.

Why is an experienced catcher better at calling pitchers than the person throwing the pitches? It's laughable. This is why pitchers do and should have the final say in the pitch being called.

The reality the best "pitch caller" is a combination of the pitcher, catcher, and coach in real time.

Any person who says the catcher/coach/pitcher/pitcher's parent/SS is "better" is just biased.

 

[claudecw3]

I disagree with almost everything you said.

Why is an experienced catcher better at calling pitchers than the person throwing the pitches? It's laughable. This is why pitchers do and should have the final say in the pitch being called.

The reality the best "pitch caller" is a combination of the pitcher, catcher, and coach in real time.

Any person who says the catcher/coach/pitcher/pitcher's parent/SS is "better" is just biased.

Brother, I think we may be speaking past each other.

Clarifying point: The armband comment was in reference to when a coach is calling the game. Some coaches match the pitch being called to the shift they call.

Some of what you said proves my comment about some coaches being terrible about calling pitches. Part of that population would be the coaches that don't give a pitcher the flexibility/freedom to shrug off a pitch. You see a lot when your daughter picks up with different teams. One of the worst pitch callers we experienced was a coach that benched pitchers when they shrugged off his calls. He recruited/tricked ("open practice" is really a tryout, and then we are going to be short for this tournament if you don't help us out trick) a great team, they won rings three weekends in a row, but by the third week all of the pitchers left, and he couldn't field a team any longer. My daughter left after the first week, and won't even take the ring out of the little sash.

If you are advocating for a pitcher looking at her armband, and calling out the number to the catcher-- I suppose that would work though I have never seen in TB, high school ball, or college ball.

I was simply stating that catchers normally do a better job at calling pitches than coaches. I have no idea where you got the other stuff from.

 

[tomorrow]

I was simply stating that catchers normally do a better job at calling pitches than coaches.

I think Catchers also keeps the pitcher in a rhythm. Coaches by adding themselves to the mix bring an extra element that inhibits getting into a flow.

 

[daywalkerdad]

I have seen situations where in game coaching has won the game, and we have all seen too many situations where in game coaching has lost games. Pitch calling is no different. My daughter pitches, and two summers ago she spent the entire summer as a pick-up player/bracket pitcher (No team dues and tournament fees was great). I am going to step on the toes of a lot of coaches, but the majority of the time an experienced catcher is far better at calling pitches than a coach. Now, some teams have the entire team wear the armband, and call shifts that match the pitch.

Just curious did any coaches discuss how your daughter wanted to pitch, or just ask what pitches she throws then start calling.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Coaches by adding themselves to the mix bring an extra element that inhibits getting into a flow.

Coaches are bringing statistics, spray charts, and defensive shifts to the party. There isn't some magical pitch-calling combination that is better than random chance. The dice are already loaded based on what the pitcher's best pitch is.

The catcher is bringing their view of the pitcher's pitches (are the pitches doing what they are supposed to do) and the umpire's comments/views/preferences. You had better damn sure be getting the catcher's input between innings.

The pitcher is the one throwing the pitch and has the ERA stat attached to their name. They get the final say but need to be able to carry/defend their decision. They get the final say by shaking off the pitch call. More than two head shakes and we are calling time and talking about it.

You need all three. Anyone that picks just one isn't doing it right.

 

[tomorrow]

Coaches are bringing statistics, spray charts, and defensive shits to the party. There isn't some magical pitch-calling combination that is better than random chance. The dice are already loaded based on what the pitcher's best pitch is.

The catcher is bringing their view of the pitcher's pitches (are the pitches doing what they are supposed to do) and the umpire's comments/views/preferences. You had better damn sure be getting the catcher's input between innings.

The pitcher is the one throwing the pitch and has the ERA stat attached to their name. They get the final say but need to be able to carry/defend their decision. They get the final say by shaking off the pitch call. More than two head shakes and we are calling time and talking about it.

You need all three. Anyone that picks just one isn't doing it right.

These two sentences.
1. Coaches are bringing statistics, spray charts, and defensive shits to the party.
2. There isn't some magical pitch-calling combination that is better than random chance.

Seem at odds with each other. I am sure I am just not understanding it properly. If random is just as good why have the coach call it?


My point was not that coaches don't add value. Just coaches don't always help the pitcher perform since they are just adding another person to the pitching process. If you are a pitcher that likes to work fast then adding a wrist puzzle (that is also harder as a pickup) between every pitch is not helpful.

 

[claudecw3]

Just curious did any coaches discuss how your daughter wanted to pitch, or just ask what pitches she throws then start calling.

You asked the right question. Most of the coaches just asked her what she throws, and then started calling pitches. They didn't ask how she wants to pitch or how she wants the game called. It's like they think they are playing MLB The Show.

 

[Dabears17]

[/QUOTE]

Coaches are bringing.... defensive shits to the party.

I've definitely seen coaches who do that.

 

[bsbs]

You asked the right question. Most of the coaches just asked her what she throws, and then started calling pitches. They didn't ask how she wants to pitch or how she wants the game called. It's like they think they are playing MLB The Show.

My daughter isn't subbing this spring while her older teammates are playing hs ball but playing with 1 team exclusively. Random pitch calling, random catchers, no thanks.

 

[claudecw3]

My daughter isn't subbing this spring while her older teammates are playing hs ball but playing with 1 team exclusively. Random pitch calling, random catchers, no thanks.

I understand completely. Picking up isn't all bad, but there is a reason why some teams are always picking up. Lol