Great podcast about the state of youth sports

[dbronstein]

This is focused on baseball, but it's the same situation for softball and other sports. There's a transcript as well as the audio.

Little League - Freakonomics

Little League - Freakonomics

freakonomics.com

 

[Shawn]

All I know is most teams are pay to play. I’ve seen teams with enough players for two teams. We have 11 players and everyone plays, no one pays to play. We are all from the same town and HS except one who is like 5 miles out of town and goes to a small town. They see it as more players equals more money for the coaches. It’s sad they have to pay thousands because it’s their only option.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Long time Freakonomics fan. Can’t wait to listen to this one.

 

[ninthgirl]

From the transcript:

MILLER: So what’s happened is, as the best players have left to play travel, the leagues that are remaining — the level goes down, and the parents realize how boring it is. And so they go looking for a league that has your basic, functional baseball — with strike throwers. And that’s the private league or the private teams. And so they end up paying what I think is like a baseball tax to go play baseball.

This is what we are seeing in our area right now. Out of our house league a 10U coach wants to spin up a new C level team, but there's already a B level team that got pulled out from our house league with the same birth dates last summer and that team took all the strike throwers. So this C level team is going to take kids who aren't even strike throwers (maybe with more practice they will get there?), and I have no idea what's going to be left in house. Meanwhile even just a couple years ago when my older kid was in 10U there were fewer C level teams in our area and the house level of play was substantially higher.

Several of our friends who have gone travel are reporting levels of drama that sound highly unpleasant, and I think some of it is around these coaches and families that really shouldn't be trying to coach/play at this level. Eventually it becomes un-fun and teams dissolve unhappily.

Obviously there are great travel clubs out there, but in our area there are increasing numbers of low level teams that as far as I can tell aren't providing any benefit other than slapping the coveted "travel" label on a bunch of players.

 

[stox]

I think leagues can be successful and prevent players and families from leaving for travel. After all, in house leagues probably are more convenient than travel from a scheduling standpoint.

The big key IMO is coaching. If good coaches keep their star kids in the league, then other families will not jump ship. Only when good coaches leave the league to start their own travel teams is when mass exodus happens.

Then if all that's left are the not so good volunteer coaches, then that's when parents start thinking "whoa, my child is wasting their time here."

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

 

[ninthgirl]

I think leagues can be successful and prevent players and families from leaving for travel. After all, in house leagues probably are more convenient than travel from a scheduling standpoint.

The big key IMO is coaching. If good coaches keep their star kids in the league, then other families will not jump ship. Only when good coaches leave the league to start their own travel teams is when mass exodus happens.

Then if all that's left are the not so good volunteer coaches, then that's when parents start thinking "whoa, my child is wasting their time here."

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Genuinely curious as someone whose league is dealing with this problem (doesn't help that our travel team director loves to poach coaches from our rec program), how do you keep the good coaches around? So many people have the attitude "If I have to deal with the parents who just drop kids off for 2 hours of babysitting, I am wasting my time and I need to go travel."

 

[The Man In Blue]

I’ll tell you I don’t have the solution. If I did, I would still be running a program and never would have become an umpire.

The best case scenario I can see is a world where the travel and rec program are one OR have a VERY close working relationship. Both programs have to be able to show they have value to players, but more importantly have to be able to communicate the value the other one offers.

It will never happen on a large scale though. Too many people don’t want to hear that little Tommy or Suzy just aren’t good enough to cut it. When that happens, somebody will always be happy to take their check.

Travel teams do not operate for the good of the game. They operate for the hubris of the coach.

@ninthgirl , there was an equally important piece in that bit that the podcast mentioned but glossed over: that also leads to highly reduced quality in travel ball. Notice we call it travel ball now … when I was a kid it was called competitive.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Genuinely curious as someone whose league is dealing with this problem (doesn't help that our travel team director loves to poach coaches from our rec program), how do you keep the good coaches around? So many people have the attitude "If I have to deal with the parents who just drop kids off for 2 hours of babysitting, I am wasting my time and I need to go travel."

Again, I don’t have the answers.

We can’t keep anybody around if they don’t want to be there. The best piece of advice I can offer is to be more selective when accepting people to coach. Be willing to say no to somebody whose ambition is to create a travel team.

 

[Gambler Bob]

I don't see any issue with players or coaches leaving a rec league to find a more competitive atmosphere. If your daughter has a goal of playing Varsity softball at the High School level where I live, there about a 0% chance she will make the varsity team if she played rec ball past the age of 12. The varsity team does not have any girls that are not seasoned travel ball players.

I understand that every High School is different in terms of the level of the players.

 

[dbronstein]

Again, I don’t have the answers.

We can’t keep anybody around if they don’t want to be there. The best piece of advice I can offer is to be more selective when accepting people to coach. Be willing to say no to somebody whose ambition is to create a travel team.

My experience is rec leagues usually aren't in a position where they can be selective because they don't have enough people willing to coach.