Flip or Push Change Up?

[greg99]

Hello all and please forgive me if this has been covered already. I just found this site last night and am already hooked on it. My DD is 10 and has been pitching for about 9 months. With any luck I will get a vid of her for you all to critique in the next few weeks. She throws about 45mph clocked with a gun and rev ball too. I can't rember her spin, maybe about 14 but not sure. She has been taught the horseshoe-C grip change up by her PC. She also is working on a peel drop. Ok, back to my question. We have been to two clinic and at both of them, the instructors said the flip is the best change up. they say the batter sees back spin and can't pick up thats is a change up as with the push type the batter see no or very little spin and knows its a change up very quickly and can wait on it. The PC says you can't control a flip change and the push is easier to control.
I'm hoping to get everyones opinion on this.
Also, i can't wait to read all the IR threads...because as you have guessed, point your elbow at the catcher is what she has been taught on her fastball.
Thanks for now, i'm sure i'll be posting on her quite often.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

She is only 10. She will have the opportunity to learn many change ups.

I teach the flip, because that is what I throw. But, I do tell them about the others and show them the grips. She should go with whatever works for her.

Your PC should be flexible enough, to allow your DD some leeway.

Yes, do show us some video. I bought the Flip video camera for Christmas and I can't say enough good things about it. I insert it into my laptop and I can see 30 frames per second. The Kodak is similar and someone said that it is 60 frames per second. They are both available at Target.

 

[3'sDad]

DD got a Flip video for Christmas as well. I videoed her last week both hitting and pitching. She has seen herself pitch once in the past (local cable) but never hitting. She was very pleased with what she saw and her mechanics. I loved the Flip Video and will use it to video my team once Spring comes around and practice begins.

 

[TowPilot]

Like Amy said experiment until you find one that works for her. We worked the flip change for over a year and couldn't find consistency. Converted to knuckle change and have been very succesfull with that pitch. Nothing is perfect however. With the knuckle she has to be very good at concealing the hand, be able to get the grip quickly and stealthy, she also added a knuckle curve so if anyone starts calling 'change' by picking up the knuckle she shows the knuckle and brings the heat.

 

[JC heir]

welcome to the forum Greg----- my dd has tried flip circle & knuckle change. sheis having pretty good luck with the knuckle (control & speed) , but hasnr thrown it in a game yet.

 

[Ken Krause]

The primary change I teach is the backhand change. There is no flip to it. You essentially turn the hand around and drag the ball through the release zone, propelling it forward. This method allows you to get a lot of body drive and arm speed into it, which really sells the hitter. It also eliminates the tendency to hump up that you often see with a true flip. The hand stays on top of the ball through release, so it can't go higher than the hand and will usually lose a little altitude along the way. I've taught it to girls who are very strong and those who are 98 lb. weaklings, and all have had a lot of success with it. It's not that tough to control, which is good because as they get better at it they tend to freeze hitters rather than having them hit through it.

But it's not for everybody. Some girls just can't feel it, so for them I also use the back of the hand change, where the fingers are pointing down at release, the thumb is toward the pitcher, and the ball comes out past the little finger last. A little tougher to master and control, but for those who really need to do something at the end of the pitch it's worked well.

Not a big fan of the push change. Anyone I've ever seen throw it has to slow her arm down before release or it goes too fast. Not saying there aren't those who don't have to, but that's what I see when I watch. With the others, the object is to try to throw it as hard as you can all the way through, and let the ball do the work.

 

[lhowser]

I've recently had very good luck with more than one girl teaching targeting an intermediate point about 1/3 to 1/2 the distance to home on a change. Kind of like throwing at the arrows in bowling instead of the pins. i know this doesn't address the question of "type" of change but it is a cue that seems to be helping a few kids i coach.

 

[BoardMember]

I would avoid throwing ANY change up that imparts backspin on the ball.........Nothin worse then a change that "hangs" through the zone.......

The bottom should "fall out" of the change as it passes through the hitting zone. At the upper levels, if we face a "back-spin" change we're lickin our chops.......Move back in the box, make the pitcher rise the height to reach the catcher, causing MORE backspin......And MORE hang time.........

There's nothing wrong with the horseshoe change because the spin tends to be sideways more then backwards.......When can make the ball track out as the bottom falls out.......

Change ups that track out and down are devistating........The bat head passes through the outside zone first.......The inside zone last.

You want an off speed pitch to be in the location that the bat head will pass the earliest........Throwing off speed inside is NOT a good practice......

When people tell me they throw there change "inside and outside", I just giggle to myself and think "please throw us the change inside"........Because the bat head get there LAST.......

 

[Old Man River]

The ideal change-up looks like your other pitches!