Dilemma with coach teaching HE (OP update)

[Veryzer]

There is no discovering I

There is no discovering I/R . The internal rotation is a must for whip action to take place across the body. The main problem in pitching is not staying open long enough to get the total whip action which uses guess what? I/R. I do total whip and forearm fire then push elbow out so the arm on follow through is fairly straight then no HE. HE only happens if you close early then the follow through will come up to the throwing shoulder which is not good for your shoulder.

I'm not saying I discovered it like a scientist discovers a new element. I'm saying I didn't know about it, I came here, and I now know about it. The health concerns are an extra incentive, though. Thanks.

 

[Veryzer]

Don't get me wrong, brush is essential, if you have good posture and IR you will brush.

I'm sure it's somewhat individualized, but does brush often occur with the elbow above the hip? That's what happens when I try it.

 

[STRIKE3]

No advanced pitcher at any age.

Ally Carda uses HE.

No. All Carda does not use HE. Not at all. Late to the game here so it looks like you may have already realized that by now which is good. This is a place to learn and nobody has all the answers to everything but tons of information to learn for sure.

Carda is a replanter. Many and most(not all) replanters do not get brush but that doesn't mean they throw HE. HE and lack of brush are 2 different things.

 

[STRIKE3]

HE isn't a style...it is wrong. No advanced pitcher at any age level throws that way. It is a dead end.

There is no middle ground...there is the right way to pitch and there is the wrong way. IR, FSR, Brush Interference, Leg drive. Do those 4 things, throw 100,000 pitches, and sprinkle in some athletic talent, and your DD will be a star.

The AC doesn't know what he is doing. Dad has to tell the coach not to bother her.

@Veryzer: Tell you what. Show the AC this video of Rachel Garcia and ask him how many times she "answers the phone". I'll give you $20.00 if you video his comments.

@sluggers great post and you have know idea how many times I have watched that video over the years. Priceless!

 

[STRIKE3]

DD just joined our town's 12u travel "B" team. She decided she wants to give pitching a try, so through this forum I discovered IR, and am thoroughly convinced it is the best approach to release and follow through. I've been working with her on it in our basement and I think we've made some headway. The problem is that the assistant coach (dad of the head coach) is telling her to "answer the phone" which is just a variant of HE. After telling her she was doing it wrong a couple of times today, she meekly told him that it's how her dad told her to do it. He said that's only for curves, and afterwards she started doing it his way. I and my two daughters are new to this organization and fairly new to softball, so I'm not sure how to handle this without sounding like a know-it-all or malcontent. I also don't want to put DD in a situation that's unfair to her. Should she just work on her catching during the pitchers and catchers session and just work on pitching with me?

(I think I've seen a thread discussing this but I couldn't find it in the search.)

You have know idea how many times I have told a coach that Rick Pauly or Bill Hillhouse is my daughter's pitching coach and I only want her to have one. Both of these gents have given my daughter personal instruction at one point or another so I ran with it. Always seems to take care of things

 

[STRIKE3]

Check out her stats from UCLA.
Tons 'o walks.

What to attribute that to?

Ally Carda - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Replanting and no brush IMHO

 

[STRIKE3]

Thanks for the analysis. Helpful.

To me she looks like she muscles the ball, which takes incredible arm and leg strength and agility. Doesn't even seem like it should be possible at the level she pitches at.

So yes, her arm around the circle is great, but she also gets very wide open, monkey butts and walks a lot of batters.

Not sure what to call it. HE? IR? HEIR?

Also, if I remember correctly she walked a dozen in a loss to Auburn in the 2015 WCWS (last game of her senior year), including two walks with two outs in extra innings, the latter of which was a walk-off for Auburn. Now, granted, she threw >200 pitches that game and also batted, but if there was ever a situation where a pitcher needed to throw strikes....

Call it replanting. That is what it is. Replanters look like a monkey butt in most cases. No brush but she does have IR

 

[STRIKE3]

Yes, totally agree.

So is it still IR if there's no brush?
(not baiting you, genuine question)

Yes. You can still have IR without brushing. Check out Forearm Fire Phil. I think he does pretty decent IR but he completely misses brush. Just my opinion...

 

[Bonesaw]

Yes. You can still have IR without brushing. Check out Forearm Fire Phil. I think he does pretty decent IR but he completely misses brush. Just my opinion...

Is it IR + terribly inconsistent FSR/POSTURE, or IR + lack of brush? The entire sport of baseball presents a problem to the brush idea.

 

[STRIKE3]

Is it IR + terribly inconsistent FSR/POSTURE, or IR + lack of brush? The entire sport of baseball presents a problem to the brush idea.

As it shoud, so does football, basketball, and tennis. Sorry @Bonesaw I don't think I am understanding what you are asking. There are many similarities to baseball and softball for sure. And some similarities to baseball and softball pitching, yet, they are different and I know you know that. Brush is part of softball because it is underhand. I have never heard brush as part of baseball in anyway at anytime. So not sure how baseball presents a problem to the brush idea. Again, not following what you are asking or saying...