Curve Ball and IR - Impossible?

[GunnerShotgun]

I am trying to teach my 12U pitcher how to throw a curve ball and I am doing a poor job of it. I do not understand how exactly you achieve the horizontal spin when using the infamous IR pitching method. Perhaps BoardMembers head just exploded as one does not have to do with the other.

I have tried:

• Spine rite spinner (yellow hockey puck throwing aid) - She can throw this horizontal every time but never with the ball.
• Pitching Coach - He always tries to teach her some knuckle curve, he doesn't seem interested in her learning this pitch.
• YouTube videos - Lots of videos none that I have found helpful
• Books - lots of books comment on how to do it and drills to utilize but I haven't found the right book apparently
• forum searched - I have read most of the curve ball threads but I still haven't found any concrete answers
• RightView pro for iPhone - All pitches on the iPhone look the same to me at that resolution and frame rate.

She can throw fastballs and change ups for strikes on command and she is ready to learn a new pitch. She doesn't throw fast enough to throw a rise so I haven't mentioned that one to her. Her fastball has a natural cut in towards the batter so we want to learn a curve.

Is the hand cupped (facing the sky) on release to achieve the horizontal spin (utilizing the fingers to spin the ball)? It is my understanding you always lean or step in the direction you want the ball to spin so in this case she would be stepping slightly to the left of the power line? I understand the connection between spin and speed in order to achieve the required movement but I can't even get her to spin the ball horizontal (hand too small?)

I apologize for my ignorance,

Any help is appreciated (there is cash involved if you can help me ).

Thanks,

 

[BoardMember]

Curve-ball I/R.........

If you have Quicktime player, select "open URL" and paste the following link into the box. When it opens, use the R/L arrow keys to view this FLAT (backdoor) CURVE BALL frame by frame........

Notice Cat's fingers FLAT under the ball and running slightly up the outsidel.......I/R happens beginning with the humerus bone rotating from back to front in the shoulder joint........I/R of the forearm occurs both at the proximal AND distal radialulnar joints (elbow and wrist).......While the wrist is slightly flexed (lifted from horizontal) as it enters the release zone.....It then becomes completely flexed (level to the ground) by the end of the release zone........

This part is IMPORTANT..........

In other words........The the wrist INCREASES it's bend toward the forearm (flex) AS the forearm internally rotates........In order to maintain a level orientation as forearm I/R occurs.......

This is where the feeling of "lifting with the wrist" occurs during the "flat curveball".......

During a flat curve.......There must be a feeling of lifting in the wrist during the release phase (I/R) in order to maintain a level orientation of the spin............

Help you understand?

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Heck let's make it interesting. Can you throw a screw with IR? Video?

 

[Bama Slamer]

Does she have small hands my DD does and is having a hard time with the underhand curve.

 

[01mom]

Here is the video of Cat explaining it in detail. Pitching - The Rise, Drop and Curve - YouTube

 

[GunnerShotgun]

BoardMember:

I had my daughter read your forum post and after explained to her what some of the technical terms meant. We then loaded the video into Quicktime and watched it frame by frame (mostly the release part). We went out into the backyard and on the 7th throw she got it to curve. She knew it right away and got very excited (like a kid a Christmas really).

You have to understand that we have thrown hundreds (thousands?) of curve balls and never had one break properly (not even on accident).

She threw 5 more out of 10 (the ones that didn't break would just spin). She knows it will take a long time to master but it was definitely a light bulb moment for her.

The lifting was the key in my opinion. The girls are so smart at this age, if you explain thy "why" part they will understand the "how" part.

BoardMember you are the best. You are my daughters PC even if you don't know it. Keep up the great work.

 

[BoardMember]

Happy to help Gunner........Your DD sounds very motivated!

I don't think spinning a ball on a stick for "weeks" without ever throwing the pitch was good advice for a motivated young pitcher. It's a good thing you're not "paying" for some of the advise you get here from certain posters........A lot of it is "worth what you pay for it"......Nothing.......

Also.........It's impossible to throw a good curveball WITHOUT good I/R.........So believing I/R has "nothing to do with curveball" would have had her throwing another 1000 pitches without any movement...........

Best regards........

 

[Ken B]

Since the fastball and curve use almost the same motion from the wrist up, how is the curve harder on the elbow? I've heard this several times and want to be sure I'm not facilitating injuries. What is it that causes the injury and at what age is it safe to start teaching a curve? The pitches that seem hardest on my arm are the shove and flip changes. Th rise also seems a little harsh on my arm.

Thanks ahead

 

[hillbily75]

Throw a 2 seam fastball it will work better anyway.. and move more too