Complexity of SoCal TB

[SoAZDad]

Hey DFP Cali folks,

I recently read somewhere (can't remember which online forum) that someone said TB in SoCal was far more complex than TB in Arizona. The context, IIRC, was TB players moving around among organizations. But the statement seemed to me to be an offshoot or an aside of the main topic.

Can some of you folks explain the complexity of SoCal TB compared to the relative simplicity of AZ TB?

I'm just curious. Thanks in advance.

 

[Eric F]

Although I'm not in the TB mix (yet), I can tell you there are a LOT of teams in So Cal. It appears to me that there are some major organizations with multiple teams, in multiple age groups, and there are also individual/independent teams (which seem to be mostly former rec all-star teams). The pattern I often see is 10U rec all-star teams deciding to go TB once they make the step to 12U. This leaves 12U rec very weak, and 12U TB watered down.

I hope JJ chimes in here soon. At least one of his kids is in that mix right now.

 

[SoAZDad]

Although I'm not in the TB mix (yet), I can tell you there are a LOT of teams in So Cal. It appears to me that there are some major organizations with multiple teams, in multiple age groups, and there are also individual/independent teams (which seem to be mostly former rec all-star teams). The pattern I often see is 10U rec all-star teams deciding to go TB once they make the step to 12U. This leaves 12U rec very weak, and 12U TB watered down.

I hope JJ chimes in here soon. At least one of his kids is in that mix right now.

Okay, that makes perfect sense - there are only a few large multi-state organizations in AZ, and a few big local organizations. California has an order of magnitude more of the former and perhaps two OMs of the latter.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

Not sure what you mean by "complexity of SoCal TB". Any player who wants to play travel ball here in SoCal has that opportunity. Whether the player is good enough or has the right social connections to make one of the big name organizations is a different story. There are teams that do tryouts every year and those that do not hold tryouts (you have to be referred by someone who already plays there). And as with anywhere, you have to determine whether the fees you pay are worth the time and effort - especially if a player is trying to get colleges to notice.

 

[SoAZDad]

Not sure what you mean by "complexity of SoCal TB". Any player who wants to play travel ball here in SoCal has that opportunity. Whether the player is good enough or has the right social connections to make one of the big name organizations is a different story. There are teams that do tryouts every year and those that do not hold tryouts (you have to be referred by someone who already plays there). And as with anywhere, you have to determine whether the fees you pay are worth the time and effort - especially if a player is trying to get colleges to notice.

Thanks, maybe that was all or part of what I didn't understand.

 

[SyndreSoftball]

My daughter has played travel ball sinc eshe was 11 and is now 13, one thing I can say I hate is the constant movement of girls, because there are so many options, people always think the grass is greener on the other side. We had a very storng team last year in 12U, but in January we lost 4 of our strongest players, who wanted to go play for a big name, they all regret it now. I think you have to know what is best for your kid and be realisitc, and dont listen to the "noise" everyone has something to say about this or that, or you should be playing here, or you get to college by playing with this organization. Do what is best for your daughter at the end of the day, do your research, and dont make any emotional decisions. Travel ball down here is crazy, so many temas so much talent.

 

[Eric F]

Thanks, maybe that was all or part of what I didn't understand.

All too often, the politics of adults is the primary deciding factor. This isn't exclusive to TB. I see plenty of it in rec ball, too.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

My DD played high-level TB in SoCal for 6 years, so I'm knowledgeable about it. However, I can't really compare it to AZ TB because I don't know much about AZ TB other than there were a few AZ orgs that we'd see regularly.

There is quite a bit of movement between orgs for various reasons. Here are a few off the top of my head.

- The top orgs have coaches that stay at an upper age group (i.e. 18U and some 16U), so those teams get their players from other teams - and often from other orgs. The 18U teams have limited openings, so players go to the team that has a need for them.

- Players' needs change as they get older and many outgrow what their coach/team can provide (e.g. recruiting). For example, the top 2 '96 teams placed 1-2 at ASA/USA 12U Nats and top 4-5 the following year at 14U. They weren't major orgs, so many of the top players from those teams moved up to elite 16U teams the following year for recruiting exposure. One of those teams was still fairly good for a year, but neither was a force after that.

- There is a fair amount of movement outside the usual Aug-Sept time frame. Much of it happens after the fall season as coaches and players make changes based on how it went. There is some other movement during the summer as some teams pick up players for Nationals.

- Coaches/teams change orgs. Some buy their way into an org and others earn their way by a reputation of consistently having strong, well-run teams.

 

[SoAZDad]

My DD played high-level TB in SoCal for 6 years, so I'm knowledgeable about it. However, I can't really compare it to AZ TB because I don't know much about AZ TB other than there were a few AZ orgs that we'd see regularly.

There is quite a bit of movement between orgs for various reasons. Here are a few off the top of my head.

- The top orgs have coaches that stay at an upper age group (i.e. 18U and some 16U), so those teams get their players from other teams - and often from other orgs. The 18U teams have limited openings, so players go to the team that has a need for them.

- Players' needs change as they get older and many outgrow what their coach/team can provide (e.g. recruiting). For example, the top 2 '96 teams placed 1-2 at ASA/USA 12U Nats and top 4-5 the following year at 14U. They weren't major orgs, so many of the top players from those teams moved up to elite 16U teams the following year for recruiting exposure. One of those teams was still fairly good for a year, but neither was a force after that.

- There is a fair amount of movement outside the usual Aug-Sept time frame. Much of it happens after the fall season as coaches and players make changes based on how it went. There is some other movement during the summer as some teams pick up players for Nationals.

- Coaches/teams change orgs. Some buy their way into an org and others earn their way by a reputation of consistently having strong, well-run teams.

ALOT of movement in AZ as far as players go, less so with org coaches in AZ. Thanks.

 

[JJsqueeze]

I don't know about complexity differences, but what I can say without a doubt is that the "travel ball market" In SoCal is simply large and liquid. That is the best way I can put it. There are soooo many options that a) it is hard to keep track of who is who and b) there is a team for every player regardless of skill level.

Some anecdotal evidence-

DD2 is 10 U, our chosen org does not have a full squad to get games going so I posted something on Heybucket offering her as a guest player and have had a consistent flow of game offers every weekend for over a month-This is site unseen mind you, they have no idea how she plays when they offer to have her guest. The range of guesting has been from top top name brand org, to a converted rec all star team.

DD1-Is a 2002 pitcher, she was ok as a first year and has upped her velocity so she will now be on the faster end of 12U come spring. The coach of our org took her and another pitcher and has them playing with his REALLY good 14U squad. Not because they are at the level of the 14U squad, in fact, they stick out like sore thumbs on the team, but he, being a good coach and a smart guy, is willing to give them reps and circle time with this squad to lock them up so he can build a team around them come the December musical chairs. Now she is a good pitcher as is the other pitcher, but they are not great. But there are sooo many teams that if you can get two good pitchers (that can also hit) then that is half the battle to be competitive.

The best way I can put it is that there really is not a tryout season in SoCal TB. Tryout season is year round.

I don't think this is unique, I just think it is a function of population and weather, SoCal has about 20 Million people in 5 counties that are all about an hour and a half from eachother. Put the same population denisty in AZ or anywhere else with year round playable weather and the same thing happens.