Cheating or Aggressive Base Running?

[PapaBear]

What if the kid had a medical condition which caused her to become disoriented..would you still be calling on the umpire to call it without appeal..?

Some of you would complain about expanding the strike zone to get a game moving along but now want the umpire to impose their will in this case..cannot have it both ways.

Then the great part of the story would be girl with disoriented condition found a way home to win it for her team. Overcame lifes challenges in big game. So yes, call it.

 

[MoJo]

.....expanding the strike zone to get a game moving along but now want the umpire to impose their will in this case......

Strike zone is THE STRIKE ZONE. Black and white. Measurable and easily defined by everyone.

Expanding the zone is MAXIMUM BS. Not calling the upper end for all the BS in the other thread....MORE MAX BS.

Ump says...... "Girls, I am "MSU" today because of XYX"

Ump says.... "100% of your hitting and pitching practices have used the rulebook as the bench mark. But today I changed it. Just like they taught me at ump school.....one to the inside and 2 to the outside....."

65 yo dudes must like doing their funky chicken dance while call in "STRIKE 3" on an 11 yo girl.

 

[_MIA_]

Strike zone is THE STRIKE ZONE. Black and white. Measurable and easily defined by everyone.

The rulebook is pretty clear on what to do about a MISSED BASE (see I can capitalize too..)

 

[MightyMO]

It is an appeal call I believe because for the most part the runner can correct their mistake during live play.
In other words, they don't want the umpire to make a call or indicate that a runner missed a base while the ball is alive to avoid tipping the runner off that they have made a mistake. Specially because they can (in most cases) return to that base to correct their error and also other runners may be running and so on (same idea for tag ups/returning to tag up).

Thanks for the reply (and also the reply from @Greatdaytobeawildcat ). Both were very close to I'll address them both here.

You make a good point about the reasoning being related to "fixable" mistakes. I would say that it could be treated like a dropped third strike in that nothing is said until the player enters the dugout. Or in the case of a player that misses second on their way from first to third then they could be called out when the pitcher is in the circle with the ball. Again, just ideas and I'm sure you're right that this is probably a baseball rule from the very early days of the game and will never change.

As far as batting out of order, I always just assumed that it wasn't the umps responsibility on that one because they can't be expected to check the lineup with each new batter.

 

[GIMNEPIWO]

Then the great part of the story would be girl with disoriented condition found a way home to win it for her team. Overcame lifes challenges in big game. So yes, call it.

Okay ... So you advocate for the Umpire to go against the rules of the game ... If you are the coach, where do you have them stop ? With only the rules that you don't like ? Should they check with you, or will you give them a list to go by ? Maybe 2 lists, one for when your DD or team is on offense and one for when she or your team is on defense ?

 

[PapaBear]

Okay ... So you advocate for the Umpire to go against the rules of the game ... If you are the coach, where do you have them stop ? With only the rules that you don't like ? Should they check with you, or will you give them a list to go by ? Maybe 2 lists, one for when your DD or team is on offense and one for when she or your team is on defense ?

Didn't say that, stating the rulebook is flawed if an umpire sees blatant cheating but has to wait to see if it's appealed before ruling. The overall issue is not with the appeal but the coach/team doing it. It's a cop out answer by saying "Umpire to go against the rules of the game." Are you advocating for cheating as long as you get away with it? Big risk, big reward?

As a coach, you don't cheat. I've stated earlier, I would have a hard time with a coach who coached this way or thought this was acceptable.

 

[_MIA_]

Are you advocating for cheating as long as you get away with it? Big risk, big reward?

I don’t see anybody saying that..I think everybody agrees that the coach in question is an as*..

 

[Rolling Hard]

""You can tell that's planned", but it could be the player doing it on purpose or just completely losing her mind and cutting the base short. "

So lets send the video to the AD. AD questions the player and then the coach. Coach gets fired. Simple. If AD doesn't fire coach then they both get fired.

 

[GIMNEPIWO]

Didn't say that, stating the rulebook is flawed if an umpire sees blatant cheating but has to wait to see if it's appealed before ruling. The overall issue is not with the appeal but the coach/team doing it. It's a cop out answer by saying "Umpire to go against the rules of the game." Are you advocating for cheating as long as you get away with it? Big risk, big reward?

As a coach, you don't cheat. I've stated earlier, I would have a hard time with a coach who coached this way or thought this was acceptable.

If it's in the rule book, it's a rule ... Coaches should know the rules ... A player missing a base is an appeal play ... If the coach sees a player miss a base, they should appeal the play. In this case, it appears by the OP that this was a planned play and intentional cheating ... You can bet that if the Umpire saw this and thought it was intentional / planned that they would be hoping that the coach (or opponent team member) saw this and would appeal ... But the rules can not be written in such a manner that Umpires can impose a penalty against a team just because ... Imagine this wasn't cheating and just the disoriented girl wandering around the infield and your Umpire calls her 'out' without an appeal ... There goes her chance to over-come lifes challenges. LOL

 

[PapaBear]

If it's in the rule book, it's a rule ... Coaches should know the rules ... A player missing a base is an appeal play ... If the coach sees a player miss a base, they should appeal the play. In this case, it appears by the OP that this was a planned play and intentional cheating ... You can bet that if the Umpire saw this and thought it was intentional / planned that they would be hoping that the coach (or opponent team member) saw this and would appeal ... But the rules can not be written in such a manner that Umpires can impose a penalty against a team just because ... Imagine this wasn't cheating and just the disoriented girl wandering around the infield and your Umpire calls her 'out' without an appeal ... There goes her chance to over-come lifes challenges. LOL

" You can bet that if the Umpire saw this and thought it was intentional / planned that they would be hoping that the coach (or opponent team member) saw this and would appeal"

And there is the issue. "hoping" shouldn't come in play in a game of set rules of touching the base. Again, the rule book is flawed, as an ump can "say judgement call" on a call on a play but when it comes to seeing blatant cheating it should never come down to "hoping"

I have a daughter who needs extra care for a respiratory/lungs issues. She was pitching on a hot summer, doing well but was slowing her pace to catch her breathe between pitches. She got called for too much time between pitches often. Should she of gotten a pass? No, she took the ball and got out of the inning.