Bad pitching

[Nuwin]

Also it is hard to describe accurately what a wild pitch is. When some catchers have great range and some have near none.

Although, when I talk to my DD, there are no wild pitches. Only passed balls. But that's a mindset, not an official scoring designation. The scorebook might care. But the scoreboard does not. Stop the ball. Stop the runners.

 

[RADcatcher]

I understand just fine, I just disagree.

Absolutely fine!

I think pitching has changed over 150 years that the "defense must possess the ball" caveat is not really intended by the interaction of batter-pitcher, and no longer needed.

Hmmm in what way has pitching changed that the defense possession of the ball becomes no longer needed?

 

[RADcatcher]

Although, when I talk to my DD, there are no wild pitches. Only passed balls. But that's a mindset, not an official scoring designation. The scorebook might care. But the scoreboard does not. Stop the ball. Stop the runners.

Control the ball! To Control the Game!
Which includes controlling the batter who becomes a runner when they step out of the box heading towards first!

 

[Bernie]

“You gotta take care of the ball”. How many times have we heard that from our coaches in most ball sports?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JayW]

It's not a relic or a leftover. It's integral to the very point and purpose of the game.

As others have explained to you, the defense must possess the ball to get outs. Simply throwing a ball past a batter is not sufficient to get them out. I'm not sure why that's difficult to understand. That's only half the job. The other half is actually catching the thrown ball. Why? Because that's how the game is played in every respect.

With the exception of certain offensive rule violations (interference, batting out of order, etc.), the defense must possess the ball to get an out. It's illogical and inconsistent to say that isn't necessary for a strike out.

And keep in mind that the rule is "off" in certain situations to protect the offense. It's literally the same as the Infield Fly Rule, which is not designed to be a "free out" for the defense, but instead it is there to protect the offense from being unfairly doubled or tripled up.

You can not like the rule. You can like or not like whatever you want. But you also can't reasonably argue for or against a rule simply on the basis of your whims. Well, unless you're writing the NCAA Softball rule book.

It certainly is a relic in some respects. The rule comes from a time when the hitter only got 3 swings to hit the ball and the ball was in play after the 3rd swing whether the hitter made contact or not.

You keep harping on possession. However, mere possession is not enough. Unlike in other circumstances involving a thrown ball, the catcher has to catch the ball without the ball touching the ground. So the catcher can clearly be in possession of the ball, e.g., one hop or on the ground, and still not record the out.

What would be the result without the rule? The batter would be out and runners could advance the same as any other passed ball. The game would be fine.

 

[RADcatcher]

It certainly is a relic in some respects.

It is not new.

You keep harping on possession. However, mere possession is not enough.

Maybe because There are rules that impact a runner interfering a defensive player's ability to have possession. That implies possession is important

Unlike in other circumstances involving a thrown ball, the catcher has to catch the ball without the ball touching the ground.

? Not sure I followed that point?
Unless you're talking about pop-ups?
There are definitely times the ball hits the ground and the catcher has to field it to make an out.

So the catcher can clearly be in possession of the ball, e.g., one hop or on the ground, and still not record the out.

That is true of all the defense. But that also doesn't mean they finished the play.

What would be the result without the rule?

It is valid to bring into discussion how the game would be affected or not if the rule was eliminated.

 

[JayW]

It is not new.


How so? There are rules that impact a runner affecting a defensive player's ability to have possession. That implies possession is important

? Not sure I followed that point?
Unless you're talking about pop-ups?
There are definitely times the ball hits the ground and the catcher has to field it to make an out.



It is valid to bring into discussion how the game would be affected or not if the rule was eliminated.

On a dropped 3rd strike, the catcher is not rewarded for scooping a ball out of the dirt and gaining possession. It’s still a dropped 3rd strike even though the catcher is clearly in possession of the ball. Contrast that with the first baseman who scoops the ball and is in possession. There is no reason for the rule except that historically you could record an out by catching a foul ball on the bounce. When the foul ball bounce rule was eliminated, the dropped third strike was also changed to require the catcher to field the ball without the ball hitting the ground. OP’s comment about possession is incorrect. It’s not enough on a dropped 3rd strike.

 

[RADcatcher]

On a dropped 3rd strike, the catcher is not rewarded for scooping a ball out of the dirt and gaining possession.
It’s still a dropped 3rd strike even though the catcher is clearly in possession of the ball. Contrast that with the first baseman who scoops the ball and is in possession.

Thank you for your detail! I like your explanation. Here's my perspective. Being that the rule is a rule.
I look at the catcher controlling the dirt pitch as half of the play. The other half is either tagging a runner (or batter /runner)
or throwing getting them out at a base.
( there is no reward in Fielding the dirt pitch/grounder until finishing the play)
Same with the rest of the defense field the grounder and finish the play.


In your example first base also has two parts to the play.
The first baseman has to dig the ball out of the dirt have possession while additionally has to get their foot on the bag before the runner gets there. Or tag the runner.

 

[JayW]

Thank you for your detail! I like your explanation. Here's my perspective. Being that the rule is a rule.
I look at the catcher controlling the dirt pitch as half of the play. The other half is either tagging a runner (or batter /runner)
or throwing getting them out at a base.
( there is no reward in Fielding the dirt pitch/grounder until finishing the play)
Same with the rest of the defense field the grounder and finish the play.


In your example first base also has two parts to the play.
The first baseman has to dig the ball out of the dirt have possession while additionally has to get their foot on the bag before the runner gets there. Or tag the runner.

I have no problem with the rule being in place. But the game would be fine without it too.

 

[daywalkerdad]

Although, when I talk to my DD, there are no wild pitches. Only passed balls. But that's a mindset, not an official scoring designation. The scorebook might care. But the scoreboard does not. Stop the ball. Stop the runners.

Had to explain to DD that official scoring a ball that bounces is a wild pitch even if the drop was called and it was put were it is supposed to be.