back leg, front leg and hands

[Alan Snedeker]

Sit on your butt in the batter's box, with your chest facing the pitcher and your feet in front of you. See how far you can hit the ball with the arms and hands.

The SECRET OF HIGH LEVEL HITTING is; timing the use of the hands to the energy flowing up from the ground AFTER the legs supply the main energy. You can hit the warning track with dead hands. Well timed, proper use of the hands will get it over the wall. The hands are the last link, not the first, and they are a small source of force.

If you don't use the legs and core properly, you won't even get it to the warning track, even with good hand use.

jbooth,

I'm going to call you on this one. Seeing this in my head I'm betting I can hit the ball just as far with just my arms and hands than I can will my legs/hips/torso/arms rotating. Visualize duct taping the bat to your hands and wrists so you have no hand articulation. You can tape the bat at what ever angle you want. Now using the rest of your body in what ever method you want, see how far you can hit the ball.

You say the hands provide a small amount of force. I agree the legs, hips and torso can provide more force because they are much bigger muscles, but how much of that force is actually used to move the bat vs moving the rest of your body? How much bat velocity do you think you can get with just hand pivot? How much bat velocity do you think you can get with your hands and wrists tapped up? My guess is they will be pretty close to the same. This would be a fun test.

Since you say the hands are the last link in the chain, are you saying the hands don't get used until after the push back of the lead leg?

 

[HYP]

That's absolutely not true, and again shows that you don't understand the kinetic link, and how the energy is created and flows.

What makes you think there is a "wait?" There is no waiting.

Where is the push back in this clip?

 

[jbooth]

Where is the push back in this clip?

At the first pause. As soon as his front heel plants.

Albert's back foot has no weight on it, while his front leg is still bent. The front leg then straightens. Do you really think the hip is finishing its rotation from back side momentum? Do you really think after the aggressive push forward onto his front foot, that there is no push back?

As I said in the OP, the hands, shoulders and bat make the bulk of their movement toward the ball after the back heel is up. But, NO, you don't wait for the push back. The bat and hands are in motion before, and during, the push back.

 

[jbooth]

Nadal(gif up top) and one-legged golfer is supplying all the power with rear leg/hip. Where is their block to redirect the force? Nadal hits the ball with one leg sometimes, another times two legs. How come the ball flys off the racket with equal force. How can he generate that much force with his foot off the ground while hittting the ball back at his opponent? This particular gif, he has no block.

Ty Ken for not closing this thread.

I already said it is possible to hit off the back leg only. But, that isn't what happens with an MLB hitter who has two legs. He uses both, and they BOTH contribute force to power the bat.

 

[jbooth]

jbooth,

I'm going to call you on this one. Seeing this in my head I'm betting I can hit the ball just as far with just my arms and hands than I can will my legs/hips/torso/arms rotating. Visualize duct taping the bat to your hands and wrists so you have no hand articulation. You can tape the bat at what ever angle you want. Now using the rest of your body in what ever method you want, see how far you can hit the ball.

You say the hands provide a small amount of force. I agree the legs, hips and torso can provide more force because they are much bigger muscles, but how much of that force is actually used to move the bat vs moving the rest of your body? How much bat velocity do you think you can get with just hand pivot? How much bat velocity do you think you can get with your hands and wrists tapped up? My guess is they will be pretty close to the same. This would be a fun test.

Since you say the hands are the last link in the chain, are you saying the hands don't get used until after the push back of the lead leg?

Have you heard of the kinetic link or chain that many people with PhD's in physics and human movement have defined?

If not, you need to learn about it. If you have read it, do you comprehend it?

Based upon this post, it appears that you haven't or don't, and that makes it difficult to respond to you.

 

[mann]

What I can do is have my front toes on the ground to balance, then lift my front foot as I swing, hit it using my rear leg and back

I used to do this. I used to teach this. Jab step, squish bug, drive knee down and in. Please do not teach this, or repeat it to children.

I'm going to call you on this one. Seeing this in my head I'm betting I can hit the ball just as far with just my arms and hands than I can will my legs/hips/torso/arms rotating. Visualize duct taping the bat to your hands and wrists so you have no hand articulation. You can tape the bat at what ever angle you want. Now using the rest of your body in what ever method you want, see how far you can hit the ball

Both are very important, wrists hips along with about every part people have. But i have a drill, lock up your hitters box, at contact point, ball on tee at plate, and just using your hips turn to ball, no follow through, . That said, once they learn to use the wrists, at the pivot point, it goes even farther, but this adds feet not (yards)

 

[HYP]

Wrong again. And, you're wrong because you don't understand the physics that is going on after the back leg puts momentum into the back hip and torso.

How do you think the front leg becomes firm? It's because of Newton's third law. A force must be applied to stop you from lunging or moving your head over your front foot. In order for the back hip to continue to move as you say, a force must come from the front leg.

In physics force can be split and redirected. That is what happens in the swing. The force from the momentum of the back hip movement must be redirected. To redirect it a force is applied from the front.

Did you read this from the original thread?

I guess you could say it is pushing. If there is energy being applied into the front leg and it is firm. It is pushing against the earth to keep from collapsing. I would assume that the earth is pushing back. (I am not a physics nut). Can you say that that is pushing in the sense that I would think of pushing? Or that you would think of pushing? Not for me. I consider it creating dynamic balance. I am not trying to straighten the lead leg. I am just maintaining a firm lead leg.

For me, if I had to push from the back, block with the front and then time the push back with the front leg. That would be to much to rely on. I just power from the back side. Similar to the one leg golfer.

Even you don't describe a push. You are describing a catch or enough force to create dynamic balance. A push would be a force applied to move something, to drive or impel. Not a force to stop something from moving.

You say the front leg "gets" straightened by the back hip moving forward. That is absolutely incorrect. That IS possible however, IF you have absolutely no forward momentum. If you maintain all of your weight on the back foot, and twist on the top of it, as you believe, then the front hip will move backward and pull on the front leg. But, in a real swing, you shift your weight to the front. That shift must be controlled and stopped, to prevent lunging. The front leg stops it by applying a force into the front hip socket.

Now we are getting somewhere. Please explain the forward momentum in the Bonds clip. I am trying to understand what you mean when you say forward momentum and where is the forward momentum and what is moving forward with this momentum.

In the Bonds clip where is his weight going? and where does it stay? Don't think about physics now. Just look at the clip. His head is coming down. His body is lowering. His head doesn't move forward. His rear knee is moving forward and down, getting underneath his head. Bringing the rear hip with it. The leg is moving the rear hip. The rear hip is pivoting on top of the rear leg.

As I've said before, the push back is mostly a reactive action. It indeed feels simply like a bracing, balancing action. But, the literal physics involved, in physics terms, and bio-mechanical terms, is a push back. A force applied to the front hip socket. The original push from the back is waning. The force from the front, finishes the rotation that came from the back. The only way for that not to be true, would be to swing 100% from the back leg, like a one-legged person. Why would you do that?

You say the push back happens after the second pause. The barrel is getting thrown at that point. The barrel is thrown or checked. If it is thrown, it is gone. No amount of pushing is going to speed it up.

BTW, it looks like Bonds' leg is already straight at the 2nd pause. How can it continue to push back? And if it is already straight at the 2nd pause how does it push the front hip back any further?

 

[redhotcoach]

I used to do this. I used to teach this. Jab step, squish bug, drive knee down and in. Please do not teach this, or repeat it to children

I do NOT spin. I do NOT jab step. I do NOT bug squish. I do NOT drive knee down. I DO welcome challenges WHEN one knows what they are talking about!

 

[HYP]

The key words here are "stop" and "redirect". The force isn't actually stopped, it is redirected. The energy is still used, it doesn't stop. There is no brake, no "block".

So, there is now no "Block" in the Push, Block, Push model?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

jbooth,

I'm going to call you on this one. Seeing this in my head I'm betting I can hit the ball just as far with just my arms and hands than I can will my legs/hips/torso/arms rotating. Visualize duct taping the bat to your hands and wrists so you have no hand articulation. You can tape the bat at what ever angle you want. Now using the rest of your body in what ever method you want, see how far you can hit the ball.

You say the hands provide a small amount of force. I agree the legs, hips and torso can provide more force because they are much bigger muscles, but how much of that force is actually used to move the bat vs moving the rest of your body? How much bat velocity do you think you can get with just hand pivot? How much bat velocity do you think you can get with your hands and wrists tapped up? My guess is they will be pretty close to the same. This would be a fun test.

Since you say the hands are the last link in the chain, are you saying the hands don't get used until after the push back of the lead leg?

Thought this video would interest you.

It is a golfer attempting to explain the importance of getting the hands and wrists working (get your swingers working).

Notice he compares a swing with his feet together versus a swing on one foot ... 190 yards Vs. 165 yards.

Yes ... it is important to get the "swingers working properly" ... and that is quite important ... but there is certainly more to the swing than that.