I would not say it was unreasonable that the runner was running with her fist closed. Again, as pointed out earlier it appears that it was a strike to your daughters throat by a closed fist, but what is lacking is the intent. It's not like they had bad blood before or the pitcher threw at one of their players and she was retaliating. An ejection and a fine without malice aforethought is an acceptable sanction.
Appropriate sanction?
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- Oct 7, 2009
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Final update:
The girl was suspended from school for two days, which means she'll miss the end of the season tournament. The school will be fined $300, which will be reduced to $100 if she takes an online sportsmanship course within 10 days.
My wife is satisfied and I'm happy to have it over.
FWIW, some of the girls on our team play travel ball with some of the other girls on the other team, and those girls from the other team are saying that she did throw the punch on purpose out of frustration for getting out. I honestly don't care at this point. If she did it on purpose, she'll live with that knowledge. If she didn't, well, maybe she got a raw deal. Either way, we're moving on.
The girl was suspended from school for two days, which means she'll miss the end of the season tournament. The school will be fined $300, which will be reduced to $100 if she takes an online sportsmanship course within 10 days.
My wife is satisfied and I'm happy to have it over.
FWIW, some of the girls on our team play travel ball with some of the other girls on the other team, and those girls from the other team are saying that she did throw the punch on purpose out of frustration for getting out. I honestly don't care at this point. If she did it on purpose, she'll live with that knowledge. If she didn't, well, maybe she got a raw deal. Either way, we're moving on.
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- Jun 22, 2008
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Interesting thread.
A "fine" in HS is absolutely absurd. No place for it, but I wonder what occurred in the past that initiated using fines on amateur sports.
Suspension is good. While not a fan of a full-scale criminal action, it may not have been a bad idea of keeping such an option open if for no other reason that to make a point that it wasn't just going to go away. Somewhat of an incentive for all parties to move along with any necessary proceedings and resolutions.
Personally, as much as I cannot stand the way people in this country have become so heavy-handed in a punitive manner about every little thing that happens, the only way to get the attention of some, whether professional or amateur is eventually going to be someone being hauled off a field/court in handcuffs for assaulting people (assaulting, not playing) during an event with the common "in the heat of the game" excuse which actually seems to carry weight in some courts.
Not suggesting kids be carted off in cuffs, but somewhere, at some level, there needs to be some serious repercussions for dangerous actions other than a cute video on youtube with 20,000 tweets about it.
Just a general opinion, not necessarily about the situation here.
A "fine" in HS is absolutely absurd. No place for it, but I wonder what occurred in the past that initiated using fines on amateur sports.
Suspension is good. While not a fan of a full-scale criminal action, it may not have been a bad idea of keeping such an option open if for no other reason that to make a point that it wasn't just going to go away. Somewhat of an incentive for all parties to move along with any necessary proceedings and resolutions.
Personally, as much as I cannot stand the way people in this country have become so heavy-handed in a punitive manner about every little thing that happens, the only way to get the attention of some, whether professional or amateur is eventually going to be someone being hauled off a field/court in handcuffs for assaulting people (assaulting, not playing) during an event with the common "in the heat of the game" excuse which actually seems to carry weight in some courts.
Not suggesting kids be carted off in cuffs, but somewhere, at some level, there needs to be some serious repercussions for dangerous actions other than a cute video on youtube with 20,000 tweets about it.
Just a general opinion, not necessarily about the situation here.
I don't know, but the Georgia High School Association collected $120,000 in FINES last academic year.
That was documented in their annual budget meeting this spring. I assume other states have similar numbers. Perhaps it's like speeding tickets. It encourages schools to stress sportsmanship and find ways to keep kids and coaches from being ejected. Not all that money comes from ejections, though. Schools can be fined for various things.
I guess this thread is about done, but I will put my two cents in.
I think the coach was right not to provide you with specifics about the girl's name- she was doing her job.
This girl deserved to have significant consequence for her action- collectively, this forum has seen alot of softball played- and I don't read one person remarking they have seen/experienced a similar action from a girl in this age group. I have seen girls take and give hard hits on the baseline- but a closed fist, never. What does that say? that her behavior and response is so far from the norm as to be alarming. The truth of it is, the girl probably did not intend to hit your DD in the throat a point which could inflict maximal damage- but from everything you post- it seems clear that she DID intend to hit her. So her punch went off target and instead of the chest, it hit her throat- but for the grace of God, your DD did not suffer lasting harm from a punch that was not meant to cause that kind of harm. That is why there is a need to zero tolerance for that behavior, BECAUSE of unintended consequences.
What next- two years from now, when she is 15 she is bigger and stronger and lashes out with something in her hand, then she REALLY inflicts an injury that has lasting repercussions for the victim?
I am glad that this has been pursued, and I know that you want to put it behind you- but honestly, consider writing a letter to the principal of the opposing team's middle school to record the events in your words and your concerns as a parent- as well. If this happened at my child's middle school, the child would be banned from participation in ALL school sports (which is a privilege, not a right). I am in favor of a zero tolerance policy in a situation such as this. JMO.
I think the coach was right not to provide you with specifics about the girl's name- she was doing her job.
This girl deserved to have significant consequence for her action- collectively, this forum has seen alot of softball played- and I don't read one person remarking they have seen/experienced a similar action from a girl in this age group. I have seen girls take and give hard hits on the baseline- but a closed fist, never. What does that say? that her behavior and response is so far from the norm as to be alarming. The truth of it is, the girl probably did not intend to hit your DD in the throat a point which could inflict maximal damage- but from everything you post- it seems clear that she DID intend to hit her. So her punch went off target and instead of the chest, it hit her throat- but for the grace of God, your DD did not suffer lasting harm from a punch that was not meant to cause that kind of harm. That is why there is a need to zero tolerance for that behavior, BECAUSE of unintended consequences.
What next- two years from now, when she is 15 she is bigger and stronger and lashes out with something in her hand, then she REALLY inflicts an injury that has lasting repercussions for the victim?
I am glad that this has been pursued, and I know that you want to put it behind you- but honestly, consider writing a letter to the principal of the opposing team's middle school to record the events in your words and your concerns as a parent- as well. If this happened at my child's middle school, the child would be banned from participation in ALL school sports (which is a privilege, not a right). I am in favor of a zero tolerance policy in a situation such as this. JMO.
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- Jun 22, 2008
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I don't know, but the Georgia High School Association collected $120,000 in FINES last academic year.
It is just as ridiculous as requiring a deposit with a protest. We are referring to an AMATEUR game of which the schools are already in a financial hole to just provide participation. What happens when the school board just tells them there is no money for a fine? Do they shut down the program? Sure that would go over well with the parents and in the media
The governing bodies must have something in place as punishment. The coaches and the school are responsible for not only the safety of their students, but the opposing team's safety also.
Most of the time these fines aren't automatic, they usually "see" if the coach/AD/school impose their own punishment, and see how the infraction is handled on the spot. ( player removed, disciplined, etc )
Good old TN TSSAA Slaps Memphis Trezevant With Major Penalties - The Greeneville Sun
I agree that the kid's behavior was bad...but, come on, people are calling for her head on a pike.
"Zero tolerance" does not mean "no second chances". The kid's behavior was bad. But, sports can help kids with problems, and this kid has a problem. (If I was a betting person, I would bet she learned how to hit people from her parents.) A one or two game suspension should be sufficient.
"Zero tolerance" does not mean "no second chances". The kid's behavior was bad. But, sports can help kids with problems, and this kid has a problem. (If I was a betting person, I would bet she learned how to hit people from her parents.) A one or two game suspension should be sufficient.
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- Jun 22, 2008
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I don't care, a fine isn't going to guarantee anything including the safety of everyone. You want to get someone's attention, you shut down the player, then the coach and then the team. I guarantee the parents will be in front of the school board with lawyers and lawsuits about how their child is being deprived of playing for the championship. Been there, done that. The result is that coaches do not even consider doing, teaching or coaching anything which would jeopardize the program 'cause there will be no second chance.
What school budgets money for fines? From where does that money come? Who takes the hit for some other athlete's or coach's actions? Using money is a cop-out for the sanctioning body and alleviates any heat a board may have to take for a decision to take action.
MTR, you and I think a lot alike, I can tell by your opinions on certain situations.
The fines are like speeding tickets, they don't "insure" anyone's safety, but they are a deterrent. The monetary fines keep us all from speeding around town, because it hits us where it hurts most........our wallet. Get enough fines, lose your driving privileges. Same set up in the sports governing bodies, fines come first.........probation second.........then the program could be terminated/suspended.
Softball usually doesn't have many serious infractions but the sport is kept to the same standard as the more physical contact sports, football basketball soccer etc.
Anyway, just my opinion, have a good one.
The fines are like speeding tickets, they don't "insure" anyone's safety, but they are a deterrent. The monetary fines keep us all from speeding around town, because it hits us where it hurts most........our wallet. Get enough fines, lose your driving privileges. Same set up in the sports governing bodies, fines come first.........probation second.........then the program could be terminated/suspended.
Softball usually doesn't have many serious infractions but the sport is kept to the same standard as the more physical contact sports, football basketball soccer etc.
Anyway, just my opinion, have a good one.
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