Spin rate and Velocity

On occasion I have heard announcers and college/pro level pitchers say "They found they were pitching better now that they are throwing slower".
My question is do you believe that certain ball spin matches best at certain Velocity? Do you need to give the ball time to move? Do you get the best break point when you marry a "golden" spin rate + "golden" spin axis at a "golden" velocity. Or is the best result the fastest velocity with the fastest spin rate?
I am sure this has been answered by baseball or even in Rapsodo.

The whole "give the ball time to move" is one of those things people say to sound like they know what they're talking about.

Adam Faulkner throws the ball 80MPH+ and has incredible ball movement.

Some, but not all, kids have to throw the ball slower in order to spin the ball enough to make it move. Each kid has a unique sweet spot for spin and velocity. There are caveats.

1. A minimum speed is required for success at higher levels of play. For D1, the minimum speed seems to be around 60MPH.
2. Control is more important than ball movement.
3. Changing speeds is necessary.
4. Spin rate is important for Magnus effect pitchers. (True rise, drop, curve.) Spin rate doesn't matter for the bullet spin rise.

Pitching success (i.e., "winning") is based on the "total" pitcher...her athletic ability, competitiveness, demeanor, calmness under pressure, brains, etc.

Watch Lisa Fernandez pitch. She had great ball movement and speed. But that's not why she's the best ever.

This is a very complicated subject with several factors that usually escape notice.

First up, the velocity has an effect on the trajectory, so the direction of air flow over the ball will change as it slows down. Imagine this, you go to the Grand Canyon and throw a ball with bullet spin straight out off a ledge. As the ball slows down and begins to drop the spin axis remains constant but the air flow over the ball changes from a 'head wind' to coming up from the bottom. So a ball with clockwise bullet spin will begin to curve 'left' as it sinks downward. This is how a baseball slider, with bullet spin, can curve.

Magnus force goes up with an increase in RPM. What is the relationship between the two?

Velocity is related to inertia, the faster the ball is moving the higher the force needed to deflect it from it's trajectory.

Velocity is also related to Magnus force, the faster an airplane goes the more lift the wings will generate.

These three factors are interrelated.

If you throw a ball at a given RPM will it curve more as it slows down (less inertia, easier to deflect) or will it curve less because the Magnus force will decrease? Then you have to factor in the spin axis and the change in air flow due to the declining trajectory.

A curve ball thrown at 50 mph will have more 'revolutions per foot' than one thrown 60 mph, (if the RPM's are the same for both) so what will the net effect be, more break or less? Here's where the spin axis is a factor because the slower curve will have more arc.

I always felt like I was a better overall pitcher, movement on the ball and even a better change up, when I pitched internationally. Internationally meant I had to keep 2 feet on the rubber and wasn't allowed to crow hop. That took my velocity down with the more restrictive rules. However, I always felt like I had better "stuff" that way.

This begs the question: why didn't I pitch that way all the time if I felt like a better pitcher when throwing that way? Great question. Honest answer would probably be ego. And I absolutely wish I had a time machine.

sluggers said:

The whole "give the ball time to move" is one of those things people say to sound like they know what they're talking about.

Adam Faulkner throws the ball 80MPH+ and has incredible ball movement.

Some, but not all, kids have to throw the ball slower in order to spin the ball enough to make it move. Each kid has a unique sweet spot for spin and velocity. There are caveats.

1. A minimum speed is required for success at higher levels of play. For D1, the minimum speed seems to be around 60MPH.
2. Control is more important than ball movement.
3. Changing speeds is necessary.
4. Spin rate is important for Magnus effect pitchers. (True rise, drop, curve.) Spin rate doesn't matter for the bullet spin rise.

Pitching success (i.e., "winning") is based on the "total" pitcher...her athletic ability, competitiveness, demeanor, calmness under pressure, brains, etc.

Watch Lisa Fernandez pitch. She had great ball movement and speed. But that's not why she's the best ever.

Click to expand...

You don't think it's true that you need to give the ball more time to move? I'm also curious is do you think there is a bullet rise and not just a high pitch?

sluggers said:

The whole "give the ball time to move" is one of those things people say to sound like they know what they're talking about.

Adam Faulkner throws the ball 80MPH+ and has incredible ball movement.

Some, but not all, kids have to throw the ball slower in order to spin the ball enough to make it move. Each kid has a unique sweet spot for spin and velocity. There are caveats.

1. A minimum speed is required for success at higher levels of play. For D1, the minimum speed seems to be around 60MPH.
2. Control is more important than ball movement.
3. Changing speeds is necessary.
4. Spin rate is important for Magnus effect pitchers. (True rise, drop, curve.) Spin rate doesn't matter for the bullet spin rise.

Pitching success (i.e., "winning") is based on the "total" pitcher...her athletic ability, competitiveness, demeanor, calmness under pressure, brains, etc.

Watch Lisa Fernandez pitch. She had great ball movement and speed. But that's not why she's the best ever.

Click to expand...

Perfect answer. End the post here. There is nowhere else to go but downhill.

As stated it is very complicated. You have spin vectors,
A ball going 63 mph about 92.5 fps at 1200 rpm reaching home in .4s
The seams will be going 112 fps and 72.5 fps, the ball will do about 8 revolutions.
A ball going 57 mph about 84 fps at 1200 rpm in .44s seams will be 104 and 64, 8.8 revolutions.
The movement is a function of force and time. Force is a function rpm and velocity.
Force being equal 57 mph will move about 20% due to added time.
Force may not be equal. Not to mention wake effect.
Real question is what movement matters. Batters have a time that they cannot adjust to movement. If that is fixed time both will move the same or higher velocity will move slightly more.

I've been wondering about this lately also, my DD picked up a few mph recently but also lost her drop about the same time. We think the increase was due to a small mechanical change. I noticed that her spin orientation wasn't as consistent after, but even when it appeared to be correct it didn't drop like it used to. Practice can help with the consistency, but if the spin rate isn't enough with the new speed, it won't really matter. I also wonder if the change may have decreased her spin rate. I don't really have spin rate number from before to compare to though.

I watched a D3 pitcher shutdown my daughter's team yesterday. She didn't break 56 MPH, but she struck out 16 batters, 12 of them 1 2 3. She gave up one hit and no walks, and she threw 76 pitches, 67 for strikes. She didn't need the speed to keep them off balance. In their defense, they haven't hit well in their first four games, but it was still impressive and disturbing to watch. I have to think she'd get hammered at the D1 level, though.

sluggers said:

4. Spin rate is important for Magnus effect pitchers. (True rise, drop, curve.) Spin rate doesn't matter for the bullet spin rise.

Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing this out. I am not sure why I did not I had not made the realization that the spin rate on the bullet spin rise is just being there to keep the ball from wobbling.