Transition from Tee to Pitches

[FrozenRope]

Looking for some input on a topic that has been frustrating me to no end. I have completely torn apart DD's swing and started to rebuild it based on all of the fantastic posts I've followed on this forum. She's really close to where I want her to be when working off a tee. Lower half is OK, swing is tight, she slots the back elbow and she extends through the ball with power. The problem is, every time she gets off the tee and hits live pitching, she reverts back to the weak form she had in the beginning where she straightens her arms at the beginning of the swing and just uses her arms to pull the bat through the zone. No hips, no legs..... no power at all. After a long tee session, I can get her to keep it together for some soft toss. But as soon as she sees a "pitch" it's all gone. Worst part is she'll take a practice swing outside the batter's box with perfect form. Is there any "Secret" to transitioning what they learn on the tee and soft toss to live hitting?

 

[nanotech14]

Work on the tee more, develop good mechicanics there, dont even hit anywhere else, no soft toss,pitching machine and live pitching.You have to crawl first, then walk,then run.IMO do this everyday 100 balls a day. video her progression.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

This is not an easy issue to address.

I come across this issue in about 1 out of 20 or 30 hitters ..... that is, I'll work with a hitter that can develop a great "practice swing" and then doesn't use that swing in their games.

Let me take a guess .... your daughter is highly "results oriented". That's the type of hitter that seems to fall into this issue.

Someone that is highly "results oriented", as opposed to "process oriented", will often completely blank out in the batter's box. Once the ball is in flight and approaching them, they completely loose all sense of how to 'swing' and can only resort to their prior instincts, which can be sub-par swing mechanics.

This can be one of the more frustrating issues to address ... and often it isn't detected as an issue, or accepted as an issue, until it has gone on for a long time.

Many ways to discuss this topic.

One way to discuss it is "hitting versus swinging". Someone that is "results oriented" is thinking in terms of "hitting", whereas someone that is "process oriented" is thinking in terms of "swinging". Big difference. A batter can't truly control the 'result' ... they can't truly control if they obtain a 'hit' or not ... but they can control their 'swing'.

Hitting is merely a 'result'. We control our 'swing', and we accept the 'result' ... and the 'result' may be used as feedback to influence upcoming 'swings'.

The way I deal with this may come off as a bit rough.

First things first ... I select a mechanic that a hitter gets correct via tee work, but can't bring into their swing. The focus then becomes introducing that mechanic into a game-like swing. That mechanic becomes the focus for the remainder of the sequence I'm about to describe.

I let the hitter know that I will be barking at them ... I tell them that I will be raising my voice ... I will in fact be quite loud ... not because I'm upset with them, but because I want my feedback to them to override the 'result' they obtain from their swing. In other words, regardless of the 'result', I want their 'swing' to be focused on the mechanic that we are stressing ... and I provide feedback ... and that feedback will override the actual result. In other words, the focus is on the 'swing' and not the 'hit'. In short order the hitter will have built in the proper "feelers" and we will be in sync.

I'll start with tee work ... hitting into an open field ... or sometimes long-tee in a cage. Feedback from me is directed on the 'swing' ... on the particular swing mechanic we are stress for that hitter. Almost always the feedback results in a cleaner follow-up 'hit' ... yet I want the focus on the 'swing' ... which truly is all a batter can control. The batter must make 12 successful swings in a row with the mechanic they are stressing in order to advance to the next stage … if they fail to use the mechanic on a swing then the count resets to 0. The requirement of 12 successes in a row is key ... don't cheat that number.

I progress to head-on soft-toss. Again ... I'll have the hitter working on a particular portion of their 'swing', and my feedback becomes their focus, not the 'result' of their swing ... although to be honest, the two are almost always in sync with one another, mainly because correct mechanics do indeed lead to solid contact ... but the intent here is to focus on 'swinging' and not on the 'result'. Again, the batter must make 12 successful swings in a row with the correct mechanic … failure to use the mechanic in one swing resets the count to zero. Should the batter fail to use the mechanic three times in a row, then they step all the way back to the first station and must repeat 12 successful swings there before returning to head-on soft-toss.

I then proceed to live BP, or pitching machine. Again, my feedback to them will override the feedback of their 'hit' ... and this may require that I be loud so as to enforce a focus on the 'swing' as opposed to the 'result'. The batter must repeat the mechanic in 12 swings in a row … failure on one swing resets the count to zero … three failures in a row has the batter returning to the initial station to repeat the entire sequence.

Hopefully you get the idea. It's a matter of "process orientation" versus "result orientation" ... of "swinging" versus "hitting".

As an FYI ... parents that bring this issue to my attention don't always realize it, but often are partially at fault. They stress to their kids a focus on the 'result'. One 'sin' IMO is rewarding a hitter for their results. I have had parents that would give their kid money for a 'single', more money for a 'double', more money for a 'triple' and even more money for a 'home run'. Without knowing it, these parents were encouraging their daughters to be "results oriented". We instead got the parents to give generous allowances that were not tied to their daughter's softball performance, and we nixed their reward system that was based on 'results'. We began a "process orientation" program ... and we got the kids ‘in-game swing’ to closely resemble their ‘practice swing’.

Basically ... the attitude of the hitter "with this issue" ... an issue of being "results oriented" to the point that they can't bring their practice swing into their game swing ... is to develop an attitude of not giving a 'crap' (excuse my French) about the result ... they execute what they know ... they execute their swing ... and their swing governs the 'result'.

 

[rdbass]

I like going from tee to live pitching.Me pitching to my DD.I will pitch and watch her swing.Make suggestions on what wasn't good or what she did correctly after each pitch.I started with slower pitching and as DD got better increased the pitching speed.I like when off a tee to have DD swing into a marked off cage so I know if she is swinging correctly.I mark and know were the ball should have gone.Also have your DD do long tee swings and depending of tee placement ball should be going to the correct field.

 

[rdbass]

FFS,
I find this very interesting an approach that I never thought about before(amongst many).When you say working on a "mechanic" in the swing.Lets say DD doesn't coil is that the "mechanic" part of the swing? So DD focus on doing 12 correct swings with coil in them? Would I then move on to other "mechanics"in the swing?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

FFS,
I find this very interesting an approach that I never thought about before(amongst many).When you say working on a "mechanic" in the swing.Lets say DD doesn't coil is that the "mechanic" part of the swing? So DD focus on doing 12 correct swings with coil in them? Would I then move on to other "mechanics"in the swing?

Many types of mechanics one might work on with this format. For example ..... the general sequence of "hips forward while the hands load rearward" ... or forward-by-coiling ... or lead knee cock ... slow & early .... proper rhythm ... etc., etc., etc.

For many ... the basic sequence is something that falls apart between tee work and live hitting. Very important to get the general sequence intact while in the batter's box. Once you capture that, then many other portions of the swing will fall into place much easier.

 

[FrozenRope]

Let me take a guess .... your daughter is highly "results oriented". That's the type of hitter that seems to fall into this issue.

Someone that is highly "results oriented", as opposed to "process oriented", will often completely blank out in the batter's box. Once the ball is in flight and approaching them, they completely loose all sense of how to 'swing' and can only resort to their prior instincts, which can be sub-par swing mechanics.

This can be one of the more frustrating issues to address ... and often it isn't detected as an issue, or accepted as an issue, until it has gone on for a long time.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Never quite thought about it that way. I always assumed the pitched ball caused her to go back to the old way out of habit. More so than that may be the underlying fact that last year, her first year playing softball, she struck out 2/3 times in the beginning of the season. She got a little better by the end of the season, maybe 1K per 2 at bat. This spring, we spent a lot of time in the yard with practice balls (full pitch). I didn't really mess with her swing, I just wanted to get her hitting the ball. She got a lot better, but unfortunately, in hindsight, all I did was teach her how to hit a ball with a bad swing. All the coaches and parents that were there from last year made a big deal out of her improvement as soon as the spring practices started. She hits just about every pitch in BP, but it's mostly weak pop ups and choppy grounders. Once in a while she'll catch one right and hit a lazy line drive. Same thing in games, all weak hits. Throughout this season, she only struck out 4 times in 60 at bats in the regular season.... GREAT Results right? NO... beacuse it all makes sense now. She KNOWS she can hit the ball the "old" way. She doesn't trust the new way yet, so it's hard for her to embrace it, or "Buy In" so to speak.

I like the 12 reps rule and we'll try it. I have a feeling I need to mentally sell her on embracing the new swing mechanics and just trusting it. Maybe I'll change the Goal, or what I "reward" as a good result. Hitting the ball with a bad swing = BAD. Missing a ball with a Good Swing = GOOD. Might be a tough sell to a 10 YO, but hey.... I'll give it a shot!! Thanks FFS! As soon as I get a chance, I'll put together a vid of the "Practice swing, and the Game swing so you can see exactly how different they are!!

 

[nanotech14]

I prefer results oriented, especially for the young kids. So I don't think you should change the kid at this young age as if it were wrong.

Also kids are kids and what is an issue today is not tomorrow. So I would not make a federal case out of it.

I hate cutting kids off from the full version of anything whether pitching or hitting, so if I were to ban something I would ban soft side toss and short tee work! The ball is moving in games and hitting it like it is golf is not reality, so why would you expect an automatic transition.

I still am results oriented and I think it creates a better hitter in games. Some of the best hitters I see are ones who could already hit a wiffle ball at three. So a tee is a tool, not a guarantee.

I quess,I would completely disagree with you on this one, I like to get the basics down and when it looks good, go to live hitting and review.

 

[FrozenRope]

I prefer results oriented, especially for the young kids. So I don't think you should change the kid at this young age as if it were wrong.

Also kids are kids and what is an issue today is not tomorrow. So I would not make a federal case out of it.

I hate cutting kids off from the full version of anything whether pitching or hitting, so if I were to ban something I would ban soft side toss and short tee work! The ball is moving in games and hitting it like it is golf is not reality, so why would you expect an automatic transition.

I still am results oriented and I think it creates a better hitter in games. Some of the best hitters I see are ones who could already hit a wiffle ball at three. So a tee is a tool, not a guarantee.

I think focusing on the result is very important, I agree. If you just practice without a purpose, and don't see any results, it can be frustrating for a younger athlete. I don't think you can take the same exact approach with every kid. I'd be interested to see if your thought is the same after you read my reply to FFS's suggestion.

Thanks Again for the feedback!!

 

[rdbass]

Normal practice is just me and my DD.When hitting off a tee I can watch my DD swing.I can make adjustments as we go along.I have the backstop marked out so I know where the ball is supposed to go. I think there is alot to learn off of tee swings.We then move to live pitching.It's harder to watch as DD swings,but I try.You just can't let DD swing away any way she likes as long as she's hitting the ball.I would still use the tee,I do every hitting session.Then finish with live pitching.By the "results" of the swing you normally can tell what went wrong with the swing.You know what the "results'' have been in the game.If you think a DD is going to magically hit the ball in a game by just hacking away your sadly mistaken.Easier to learn the correct way to hit a softball of a tee then move to a pitched ball.