Swing down

[Eric F]

Eric

The barrel and spine/shoulder tilt and barrel position is measured in Blast. You want a 90 degree angle of the bat going off the posture tilt. It’s part of the connection metrics, 90 degree at launch and 90 degrees at contact. I scored high in both in the swings I posted.

I don't disagree with that. Perpendicular to spine tilt makes sense for efficient movement. This would also be parallel to shoulder plane...in theory.

 

[Cornbread]

I pretty much use the Barry Bonds drill as my go to teaching. It just fixes almost everything reactively. I was always able to hit the ball far but I was always guessing and never back side. When I learned it as simple as swinging down but maintaining posture / spine angle then it really opened up the whole field to me and I was able to adjust on off speed.

We so over complicate this. It is actually pretty funny. Swing straight down to the ball and turn. Hands stay linear while posture \ turning provide the nike swoosh. If you are under the ball you are not down to enough and if you are pounding the ball in the ground you are not turning enough. Pretty simple.

This is the only post that this thread needs! It needs to be pinned

 

[fanboi22]

The hands take a direct path from launch to contact. The barrel of the bat rotates around that hand path. IMO, the turning of the barrel to contact is initiated by the hands torqueing the handle of the bat in a direction that is perpendicular to the rear forearm (hand pivot point). For the barrel to follow the path of the hands, the hands would pull the bat along its longitudinal axis. Although this has been demonstrated by some pros, it's not what I see happening in the game swings of those same pros.

Ok Thanks. I suppose this is where the mixup happens for me. When i say the barrel follows the hands, i mean that wherever i direct the barrel, not necessarily that the barrel is being 'pulled thru' the longitudinal axis. If i think of a wheel, i think that the inside spokes close to the axle drives where the outside tire goes. Inside small arc, outside larger arc that follows the pattern of the inside arc, just farther away from the centerline.

I think that the hands take a 'more' direct path, in that there is a little arc to the hands, i think that is more easily seen in the overhead camera angles of some hitters shown on here. I don't believe anyone can show a straight line path from launch to contact. I dont believe it is by definition knob to the ball. I would say more 'hands' to the ball where the barrel is turning and following the inside arc that the hands are creating. If the knob stays to the ball, the barrel never releases to contact.

So the 'swing down' to me is that 'turning' of the barrel which is following direction of the hands. I am still working on understanding how much it is turned right away vs more 'lag' to whip.

Maybe i am still misunderstanding?

 

[FP26]

Ok Thanks. I suppose this is where the mixup happens for me. When i say the barrel follows the hands, i mean that wherever i direct the barrel, not necessarily that the barrel is being 'pulled thru' the longitudinal axis. If i think of a wheel, i think that the inside spokes close to the axle drives where the outside tire goes. Inside small arc, outside larger arc that follows the pattern of the inside arc, just farther away from the centerline.

I think that the hands take a 'more' direct path, in that there is a little arc to the hands, i think that is more easily seen in the overhead camera angles of some hitters shown on here. I don't believe anyone can show a straight line path from launch to contact. I dont believe it is by definition knob to the ball. I would say more 'hands' to the ball where the barrel is turning and following the inside arc that the hands are creating. If the knob stays to the ball, the barrel never releases to contact.

So the 'swing down' to me is that 'turning' of the barrel which is following direction of the hands. I am still working on understanding how much it is turned right away vs more 'lag' to whip.

Maybe i am still misunderstanding?

Looks to me like you have a pretty good understanding. "How much is turned right away vs more lag to whip" has been debated on these sites for years and you will not find a consensus. In my opinion too much of either is not a good thing.

 

[fanboi22]

Looks to me like you have a pretty good understanding. "How much is turned right away vs more lag to whip" has been debated on these sites for years and you will not find a consensus. In my opinion too much of either is not a good thing.

Thanks, i think i think i have an understanding, a good one, maybe not, but at least an understanding. i think i know what i am looking for at least, and have found a few ways to achieve certain things. The Bonds drill that has been mentioned a couple times is great, but has caused DD to swing across and down in game swings. Like james said, need for more posture, my DD is pounding the ball. She hasn't been as good at body awareness. But i think she is close and hopefully sticks with it to put it all together. At least the hits she has are harder and not any more flares to first or right.

 

[FP26]

Thanks, i think i think i have an understanding, a good one, maybe not, but at least an understanding. i think i know what i am looking for at least, and have found a few ways to achieve certain things. The Bonds drill that has been mentioned a couple times is great, but has caused DD to swing across and down in game swings. Like james said, need for more posture, my DD is pounding the ball. She hasn't been as good at body awareness. But i think she is close and hopefully sticks with it to put it all together. At least the hits she has are harder and not any more flares to first or right.

That's awesome! And really that's what this is all about. There are examples all over this site that show successful hitters that use dramatically different thought processes. Find what works for you and dont look back.

 

[_MIA_]

There are no “cure all” drills in hitting, including the Bond’s drill. If a hitter isn’t already in a good position to swing from I would be leery of using it tbh..It isn’t going to fix a reach with the front leg for example or get somebody off their backside and if a hitter is doing things like that the Bond’s drill could just make matters worse.

Bond’s had a specific thing in mind when he suggested Yelich use it...

 

[fanboi22]

There are no “cure all” drills in hitting, including the Bond’s drill. If a hitter isn’t already in a good position to swing from I would be leery of using it tbh..It isn’t going to fix a reach with the front leg for example or get somebody off their backside and if a hitter is doing things like that the Bond’s drill could just make matters worse.

Bond’s had a specific thing in mind when he suggested Yelich use it...

Right, not saying it's a cure all, but a very good feel drill if done correctly. ie as you start hitting down, then move the hit farther and farther away, it forces the body to get into the correct position. Translating to a game swing however is the most difficult thing.

 

[_MIA_]

Right, not saying it's a cure all, but a very good feel drill if done correctly. ie as you start hitting down, then move the hit farther and farther away, it forces the body to get into the correct position. Translating to a game swing however is the most difficult thing.

What do you think is causing the steep path in games for your DD as opposed to what you are seeing in BP? Serious question not trying to be an rear (at least this time )

Yes, giving hitters goals so that they can try and organize their bodies properly is good but that has been around since hitting started and was how hitters improved before hitting instructors showed up In fact I mentioned this exact thing earlier in the thread when I mentioned getting hitters to work gap to gap in BP.

 

[fanboi22]

What do you think is causing the steep path in games for your DD as opposed to what you are seeing in BP? Serious question not trying to be an rear (at least this time )

Yes, giving hitters goals so that they can try and organize their bodies properly is good but that has been around since hitting started and was how hitters improved before hitting instructors showed up In fact I mentioned this exact thing earlier in the thread when I mentioned getting hitters to work gap to gap in BP.

I guess i don't really know. I could say it is because of the Bonds drill and pounding the ball into the ground, but she also does that drill with liners and long balls by adjusting posture. So not sure why one sticks and the other doesn't. I could say her hands are starting launch from a higher position and that is where she needs to go to make contact based on the same 'other mechanics'.

Mostly i think it is because she hasn't learned to TTB. Which in my opinion is a tight hand pivot holding on for dear life while good posture allows the barrel to stay behind and work up. I think i have a good vocabulary on these items with my own interpretations, so don't take them 'literally'. Depending on the barrel position at the start will dictate how much 'force' to put on the barrel to get it to the right spot. Neck slot v tip and rip v vertical etc. She also seems to collapse the front arm......but i could go on.

so i guess the final answer is, if i knew i would have already fixed it i guess. haha.