Rundowns

[mad hornet]

Coaches: how do you teach rundowns (pickle coverage)? I understand we try to get the runner out with one throw or as few throws as possible, so lets keep the conversation away from that a moment.

After a throw is made that did not result in an out, do you have the fielder peel back (example, 3B returns to 3B to rotate in the alternate throw if necessary), or do you have the fielder run forward (example 3B runs to cover home to cover the next throw if necessary)?

Please explain why you teach your method. Thanks!

 

[Sweet Lou]

I've always thought (and taught) that the proper way is get out of the baseline and follow your throw after you make it. To me that is the most natural and logical. Peeling back creates three problems that I see occur too often - first the fielder who made the throw tends to obstruct the runner far more often when peeling back and - second, many girls have difficulty cacthing a ball while back peddeling and trying to make a tag lastly - peeling back often causes too many defenders at the base and confusion with who is taking the throw.

That's how I see it but maybe I've been teaching it wrong.

edit - oh and I teach it is better to throw too soon rather than too late when chasing the girl to the next base but better to throw too late rather than too soon when chasing a girl back to the last base.

 

[hen]

Agreed. We have them follow the throw to the next base. Ideally the person with the ball runs slightly on their throwing hand side to allow a clear lane from throwing hand to other fielder's glove. We have them peel towards their throwing hand. If we peeled to the glove side we risk crossing the base line and obstructing the runner. We make that throwing lane important because throwing over the runner keeps the other fielder from seeing the ball the whole time and you tend to lob it (taking more time) or fly it.

The pitcher almost always has to get in the rotation, usually at 3B or 1B. A "spectator" pitcher is usually what gets our rundowns to breakdown.

 

[coachtucc]

Definitely follow the throw! For my
team it makes it easier!

 

[Steve Huff]

Agreed. We have them follow the throw to the next base. Ideally the person with the ball runs slightly on their throwing hand side to allow a clear lane from throwing hand to other fielder's glove. We have them peel towards their throwing hand. If we peeled to the glove side we risk crossing the base line and obstructing the runner. We make that throwing lane important because throwing over the runner keeps the other fielder from seeing the ball the whole time and you tend to lob it (taking more time) or fly it.

The pitcher almost always has to get in the rotation, usually at 3B or 1B. A "spectator" pitcher is usually what gets our rundowns to breakdown.

This is perfect!

 

[Steve Huff]

My formula - sorry about the length!

This is what I wrote in my publication on this subject. Some of it is malleable, such as the ball in the glove issue. I generally say no more than 3 steps with the ball in the glove if a tag is imminent.

Rundowns result in the opposite result one would expect more often than any other situation in the game of softball. This is a result of poor execution or technique. The basic concepts are simple enough and easily taught through a pragmatic practice regimen. Break down the elements listed below to practice the various aspects as a group (see the rundown drill in DRILLS, part 5).

• Rundowns should occur in 40 feet of the 60 foot base path:
• To constrict the movement and momentum of the base-runner.
• To end the play as soon as possible, helping keep any other runners from advancing.
• To keep the base-runner from sliding under a throw and/or tag; which if made right at the base, will result in about a 90 percent failure rate for the defense.
• Whenever possible the defense should force the play back to the base of origin:
• This can be aided by having the defensive player run directly at the runner, or run at a point between the runner and the advanced/or next base.
• A throw should not be made until the runner commits completely to a base.
• Once the ball is in the base-path the following elements are key to success:
• The ball is held in throwing hand, not the glove, in a snap-throw position.
• The player with the ball chooses a throwing lane, preferably on their throwing-side of the base-path. The defensive player to receive the ball responds by moving into THAT throwing lane. This will be just to the outside or inside of the lane the runner is advancing in (RH or LH throws).
• The player with the ball runs at, and does not “cat and mouse”, the base-runner. The key is to make the base-runner turn their head away from the pursuer so they can not determine when any throw might be made, allowing them to reverse direction.
• The defensive player receiving the ball, walks toward the base-runner. In doing this they shorten the base path on their end, making the area for maneuvering smaller.
• The player receiving the throw judges when the base-runner is close enough, then raises their glove and hand, and at the same time shouts “NOW”, while running, not walking, toward the runner.
• When the defensive player with the ball hears “NOW”, and sees the glove, they make a snap-throw, with the wrist only, to the receiver (who should then tag the runner passing by on their throwing-side). They then proceed to take the place of the player to whom they threw, by going to the base the receiver was defending, peeling off toward their throwing side.
• The player waiting at the base, then moves up the baseline to take the place of the player who received the throw. The original thrower continues toward the vacated base to assume defensive responsibilities there. Again, there are two players at that end of the baseline (one up the line to engage in the rundown, the other at the base).
• If the play breaks down without success, then the new player with the ball proceeds in the same manner, running at the base-runner. Some coaches prefer the throw to be made as soon as the runner passes the half way point, keeping the play moving back toward the base the runner came from, others prefer to try to make the tag on the runner with the least number of throws possible. This is a coaching preference and should be based on the player’s abilities. Usually the less throws, the better, with two considered reasonable. If the players make several throws in most rundown situations, or the play breaks down with the runners safe more often than not, then the coach is doing something wrong.

There are four “never do’s” in rundown situations: 1) Never fake throws, because this allows the base-runner to “cat and mouse” with the defenders. 2) Never jog or change speeds while running at a base-runner caught in a rundown. The defensive player should always run full speed. It is much harder for the base-runner to change directions when running full speed. The fielder should be in control in rundowns situations, not the base-runner. 3) Since throws are made over the base-runner’s shoulder, the throws are usually caught about shoulder high, and therefore tags are difficult to make on sliding base-runners. This system eliminates sliding, and tag situations on sliding base-runners. 4) Only pursue base-runners with the ball in the throwing hand. Do not attempt to make tags with the ball in the glove, or the ball may be in the glove when the defender finds the base-runner out sprinting them, and finds it necessary to make a throw.

 

[mad hornet]

Thanks Steve, that is good stuff and a lot of it is similar to what I have been teaching.

Here's my situation. As a baseball player going back to 10 years old we were drilled to peel back after the throw. My little league team had it down like clockwork. Going through Babe Ruth, Connie Mack, Legion Ball, High School, and into College (D3) I was never taught any different.

Now I'm a fourth year travel coach and was working with our 10u team on rundowns last weekend and teaching the same way I was taught and same way I've been teaching all along. Today I got into a discussion with my assistant coach about this and he thinks our team should have the defender follow the throw. His rationale was because that is the "standard" that is being taught but otherwise I wasn't satisfied with his explanation that it is tactically superior.

Bear in mind we are working with ten year olds and one concept that I find challenging for them is to look for the next out after a play is made. So often they are caught up in that celebratory moment of making the out they forget that runners are still going.

So, I'm thinking about running this "follow the throw" concept during a pickle with a runner between home and third in this scenario: We get the out while my catcher is on third and lo, we have a runner from second trying to advance to third. Next thing I know my catcher is out at second base, we botch the play and since everyone is out of position no one is covering home and that run scores.

I can't say we've had the problems with obstruction that Sweet Lou raises or with getting back in time. The botched rundowns I've seen are almost always the result of a bad throw, failed catch (trying to make the tag before securing the ball!), or failure of the receiving defender to field the throw out in front of the base (allowing the runner to slide in safe as addressed in Steve's post).

What is the obvious thing that I'm missing?

 

[Steve Huff]

Well I think hen teaches it the same as me. We seem to be of the same mind or similar on these defensive issues. The big issues that I see is the lack of committal by baserunners during the rundown, and distance. The smaller the distance gets, the more opportunity for failure of throw or catch, or even a slide if the runner isn't pinched. So they 20 foot rundown space is a problem. If you have the timing I specify here, you can keep the failures down. Even big leaguers screw up the sure thing! If the runner is committed and turns their head, that is key! If the runner is looking at the thrower, they shouldn't be throwing.

There is a drill you can do I will copy and past that is the drill I mentioned you can even do indoors in the winter.

GROUND BALL / RUNDOWN DRILL


Objectives:
• Provide ground ball practice
• Provide practice in the primary elements of rundown plays
• Practice in rundown execution without taking time away from more important fundamental skills

Personnel: At least 2 players, and 1 coach or player/coach

Minimum Equipment: 1 bat, 2-3 balls, bucket for the coach

Points of Emphasis:
• Proper fielding mechanics
• Proper rundown mechanics
• Hustle in getting into position and execution of skills
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------A-----------
Execution Sequence:
1) A few players line up in column to receive ground balls along a base
line, in front of dugout, or between the bases at "A", shown.
2) The balls are placed with the coach.
3) The coach hits a ground ball to first fielder in line at "A".
4) After fielding the ground ball, the mad fielder makes a good snap throw
to the player catching at "B" for the coach. They then walk toward
the catcher with their hands down.
5) The catcher runs toward the fielder with the ball raised in a “flip -----------------------------
throw” position near their ear.
6) The fielder regards the catcher with the coach as the baserunner
in a rundown
7) When the catcher/baserunner is the appropriate distance to
make a throw, the fielder raises their hands to receive the
throw, and yells “NOW”, then sprints toward the catcher.
8) When the catcher/base runner hears “NOW”, they flip the
ball to the now sprinting fielder.
9) The fielder tags the catcher/base runner as they pass,
ON THE LEFT, then gives the ball to the coach.
10) The fielder now becomes the catcher/baserunner.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------B---Coach---


The timing of "NOW" will determine easy success in games or in this drill. This drill is all about timing. After this phase a runner can be added with just a ball in the hands of the first fielder (here I say "catcher") who chases the runner toward the fielder at "A". Then the exchange and tag are made. Then a full rundown situation can be created.

Responsibilities:

Cather at "B" catches the solid throw from the fielder and runs immediately with ball raised in flip throw position. Flips ball to the fielder when they hear "NOW". Passes on the left side of the fielder.

Fielders at "A" field a ground ball, make an accurate throw to catcher at "B", and walk toward the catcher with glove up hands together. When the appropriate distance, the fielder yells, "NOW" and at the same time sprints toward the catcher as they receive a flip throw from the fielder. They then tag the catcher as they pass. The play should be almost bang, bang! The catchers CAN NOT reverse course! In the real world, that player might try to stop in their tracks, but that just makes the tag simpler.

 

[mad hornet]

Can you link us to some video of that Groundball / Rundown execution drill being performed?

 

[hen]

Steve, love the material. Like you said, if you can't get the runner to commit by stopping the shuffling and getting them to turn their back to the fielder with the ball, things will be difficult. As Steve pointed out earlier, going almost at full tilt is crucial. Since you and the ball are already going decently fast, a simple wrist flick (I use the dart throwing analogy) should get enough velocity on it. Assuming the elbow is up, mastering that throw comes pretty quick. The problem I see is when they try to run fast their elbow tends to drop and then they rush to throw from a low elbow position.

I remember guys used to wind up to throw and as the receiver I'd be terrified and fumble a good number of balls out of fear. Likewise, when they fake the throw it throws my timing off (the jump start as I yell "ball") and tends to close the gap too much, leading to a lot of bang-bang plays.

The biggest thing I did to help the girls was actually getting in the mix and being the runner. Unless they were going full tilt and using good timing, they would never get me out. Putting in a live runner in practice (after the basics are covered and pretty well established) made all the difference in carrying over the technique to games. Otherwise they could always do it at practice speed with no problems.