One of the hardest parts of coaching pitchers

[sluggers]

So your standard is unless a player can land a pitch 60-80% of the time with the correct spin and location they can't really claim they throw that pitch? Do we require that it also has a certain amount of break? And a minimum velocity?

Yes. If she can't do those things, her breaking pitch is worthless at high levels of play.

If you want your kid to pitch (rather than sit the bench and watch) in college:

1. She has to get her breaking pitch to move about 95% of the time.
2. She has to be able to locate her breaking pitch at the edges of the strike zone.
3. The breaking pitch has to "really" move. An inch or two isn't enough. (I've caught--as a catcher--good riseballs. They look like they jump a foot.)
4. She has to throw with enough velocity to make it difficult for the hitters to adjust their swing during the pitch.

The college hitters are very good. Have you ever seen @Cannonball's DD hit?

 

[uncdrew]

I feel like there is an intangible aspect that makes pitchers successful not related to speed, accuracy, or the type of pitches they throw. ‍♂

For sure. My DD is a beneficiary of this. Her W-L record is always stellar. 21-4 in travel last summer, 10-1 in High School. Somehow the games she pitches she rarely loses. She doesn't get the easy games. It just happens. We kind of shrug and chalk it up to:

1. Girls like playing a bit more when she's pitching
2. She can give up a run or two and come back strong. Ice in her veins, doesn't get rattled.

 

[BucketDud]

Yes. If she can't do those things, her breaking pitch is worthless at high levels of play.

If you want your kid to pitch (rather than sit the bench and watch) in college:

1. She has to get her breaking pitch to move about 95% of the time.
2. She has to be able to locate her breaking pitch at the edges of the strike zone.
3. The breaking pitch has to "really" move. An inch or two isn't enough. (I've caught--as a catcher--good riseballs. They look like they jump a foot.)
4. She has to throw with enough velocity to make it difficult for the hitters to adjust their swing during the pitch.

The college hitters are very good. Have you ever seen @Cannonball's DD hit?

I agree 100% with your points. For a successful college pitchers those are the minimums.

But I wouldn't hold the vast majority of pitchers in softball to that standard. A small percentage of pitchers make it college let alone see significant time in the circle. So would think naturally our expectation for how well a 12u, 14u, 16u player should execute that pitch would be significantly different.

So if a kid can only execute their curve 40% of the time but it still misses bats and walks are reasonable, why would need to criticize them for claiming to have that pitch?

 

[uncdrew]

Coaches at the collegiate level place a lot of value in strike%. My ds’ college coach actually wants to see closer to 70% It’s the one stat that is top priority. If a pitcher can’t execute a pitch (whichever one you want to use) for a strike (Looking, swinging, foul, put in play), it means they are either walking too many batters or throwing too many pitches.

It might not matter as much at the younger age levels but it absolutely will matter if they want to pitch in high school or college.

Also, if they don’t have solid muscle memory for a pitch where they can throw it reliably for a strike, learning new pitches can impede their progress.

One of the moments I recognized my DD was getting good at pitching was when we had to have her throw balls on purpose.

 

[daywalkerdad]

One of the moments I recognized my DD was getting good at pitching was when we had to have her throw balls on purpose.

Sometimes when they get to that throwing balls is not so easy.
DD had to work on throwing balls.

 

[sluggers]

So if a kid can only execute their curve 40% of the time but it still misses bats and walks are reasonable, why would need to criticize them for claiming to have that pitch?

I would never criticize the kid. Of course, the kid's not the one talking about pitches. So, we're talking about parents who generally don't know a riseball from a Popsicle.

A lot of newbie parents, through no fault of their own, are misled by PCs more interested in the money than in doing what's best for the child.

If a parent wants his/her child to be "good," then a parent should learn the difference between reality and fantasy. It's a fantasy to think a child can throw 6 pitches. Just like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, it's pretend. At some point, the parents have to say, "Honey, there is no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny. And, you don't really throw 6 pitches."

In the example you gave, I would bet you $10 that the kid has never thrown a curve in a game in her life.

 

[Gtrips07]

Throwing 60% strikes will usually get a pitcher through a game without a ton of walks. 50% usually will not.

Why would anyone claim they "have" a pitch if they can only land it 4 or 5 times out of 10?

There's "knows how to throw it" and there's "has command of it."

If you want to be elite it isn't about throwing strikes its about putting the ball where you want it to go.

IIRC Riseball's daughter wold work on hitting a string and making it moving a certain way when hit with the ball.



Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

 

[LEsoftballdad]

If they are getting outs using 5-6 pitches while learning, then what is the harm in continuing to develop all those pitches in game situations?

I find this laughable. The best MLB pitchers have, at most, four pitches. And these guys have been at it for 15-25 years, and get paid millions of dollars. Why don't they have six pitches? Because there isn't enough time to learn how to command them all.

 

[Hillhouse]

I find this laughable. The best MLB pitchers have, at most, four pitches. And these guys have been at it for 15-25 years, and get paid millions of dollars. Why don't they have six pitches? Because there isn't enough time to learn how to command them all.

AND... there is no such thing as 6 pitches!!! I know I'm old fashioned but, I just don't believe that combining 2 pitches creates a "new one". Sometimes all I can do is shake my head though. I know I'm going to hear from the gallery on this one about how wrong I am and how someone's kid has this pitch mastered but, every time I get a new student who tells me she has a "drop curve", I always ask to see it for myself. I just don't understand why if you want the pitch to drop and be outside (to a RHB) why you just don't throw a dropball outside. Why take a chance that one or both of the movements in said "drop-curve" doesn't do what it's supposed to. Then it's left over the plate. Simply throwing an outside drop doesn't guarantee success but, it seems like the odds are in my favor better. Even if the pitch doesn't drop, hopefully it's still outside. If I miss the outside location, hopefully it drops. This doesn't even go into the mechanics someone uses when throwing a "drop curve" which usually requires them to once again alter their mechanics for this pitch. I'm not in favor of that for any pitch.

 

[PJR202]

If you want to be elite it isn't about throwing strikes its about putting the ball where you want it to go.

IIRC Riseball's daughter wold work on hitting a string and making it moving a certain way when hit with the ball.



Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

*Command* of a pitch, aka "putting the ball where you want it to go."

Because it's most definitely about strikes. Whiffs, looking, fouls, popups, singles, homeruns. You throw what you throw. What you can SUCCESSFULLY throw. Win or lose, the low walk-count corresponding with 60% or more strikes will shake out whether you choose put them over the plate or not.