Lower Body

[FiveFrameSwing]

It wasn't a comparison or I would've sync them together.......It was an observation.......An observation that you start your swing with the lower body.......A lower body is turning ahead of (uncoiling).......and under the hands.......supporting what your doing with your upper body...........

Notice that as MTS lowers his rear elbow that his rear shoulder lowers as well ... and that this is all occurring as the rear hip rotationally thrusts forward.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Thanks for posting. A couple of questions:

Top video - at load, she has the end of the bat pointing pretty far out in front of her and almost parallel with her shoulders. Ideal position? Contrast that with your swing at load.

Bottom video - your back foot seems to be along for the ride? Are you trying to push off the big toe or only if you took a stride?

Any advantages to the back elbow up (ala Pujols) or more stylistic?

 

[Wellphyt]

Well - I agree with you. Throwing properly requires a "resistance" with the throwing hand. This allows the lower body to get ahead and for the elbow to lead. The throw will feel more like a whip...
IMO - BM's internal rotation for windmill is doing the same thing. The throwing hand is starting to resist at the top of the circle - it allows the internal rotation to happen.

You may not feel this - but it is what happens.

You swing the same way. The top hand pulls or resists as the body turns forward. This keeps the hands back and allows forces to act upon the barrel path.

Really all you need to do is grab a bat and think about pulling with the top hand as you swing. Everyone already knows how to pull with the bottom hand...

The part highlighted in Red is one reason I like the overhand throw. When the back elbow slots correctly, the hips should lead automatically.

I've never thought about the top hand as pulling on the handle. However, I just did some quick experimenting and I think the girls could relate to that cue. My only concern is with the direction of the pull. IMO the pull needs to be perpendicular to the pitch, if I'm understanding you correctly.

 

[RayR]

It does take some playing around to find what works for you as an individual. The top hand throw action is after the initial pull. Can't throw effectively without it.

Would be interested to read more from Donny Buster...

When mentioning "late poke" I always thought of it as an elbow move. I feel it in my top hand. This is what works for me. It's a late pull that allows my lower body to uncoil in front of the hands. It also allows me to hit more locations (especially low inside) as my hands are staying back.

I see the late pull in Manny's swing. I used to try and mimic him using a rocking shoulder motion. Not saying I am ding what Manny does - except in my minds eye, but feeling it in my hands.

Even on this he is able to stay back - IMO it is because the top hand is pulling enough to keep him from committing too early.

It's what keeps the rubber band tightly wound. Soon as the top hand releases - it is a throw. The bottom hand is pulling the whole time.

MTS: Last two sentences in your last post ...... Donny's point of arriving at the proper handset in a top hand/forearm pronated position, is that the top hand throw action, or the pull action I believe you are describing, becomes automatic (assuming the hips are doing their job). This is why BM can take a bottom-up approach and still have hitters turning the barrel with 'overlap' at swing initiation.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Even on this he is able to stay back - IMO it is because the top hand is pulling enough to keep him from committing too early.

Good eye.

Slightly different view point .....

He is "pulling enough" to establish and maintain a connection.

 

[RayR]

Yeah - it is ingrained in her. The queue of turning the barrel allows her to gain back some ground lost and gives her legs something to shift against. she is still out of sequence. Good catch.

My swing - I was more concerned with shifting my lower half. I have no real resistance on the bat with my top hand so I think the back foot has nothing to drive against. But, the open top hand shows you what not pushing will do for your overall swing.

when we work on the legs throwing medicine balls the feeling is similar. The weight of the ball is still going back (top hand pull) as you fire out of your legs. Once the ball starts coming forward there is nothing for the back leg to drive against so you will see the back foot drag. I wouldn't think of it as pushing off the back toe.

I believe that bat angle and back elbow position is all style.

Thanks for posting. A couple of questions:

Top video - at load, she has the end of the bat pointing pretty far out in front of her and almost parallel with her shoulders. Ideal position? Contrast that with your swing at load.

Bottom video - your back foot seems to be along for the ride? Are you trying to push off the big toe or only if you took a stride?

Any advantages to the back elbow up (ala Pujols) or more stylistic?

 

[RayR]

I never doubted connection - I just don't agree with a preset connection and trying to hold it...I like to think of it more as syncing up...gives me visual of things aligning correctly - instead of a static position.

Good eye.

Slightly different view point .....

He is "pulling enough" to establish and maintain a connection.

 

[RayR]

Well - YES. the bottom is pulling and flattening to the pitch plane.

The top hand is pulling along the bat but in the opposite direction of where the bottom hand is going. Some may see this as the supination of the top hand - to me it just feels like the bottom hand guiding.

the top hand wrist cannot be rigid.

Well - I agree with you. Throwing properly requires a "resistance" with the throwing hand. This allows the lower body to get ahead and for the elbow to lead. The throw will feel more like a whip...IMO - BM's internal rotation for windmill is doing the same thing. The throwing hand is starting to resist at the top of the circle - it allows the internal rotation to happen.

You may not feel this - but it is what happens.

You swing the same way. The top hand pulls or resists as the body turns forward. This keeps the hands back and allows forces to act upon the barrel path.

Really all you need to do is grab a bat and think about pulling with the top hand as you swing. Everyone already knows how to pull with the bottom hand...

The part highlighted in Red is one reason I like the overhand throw. When the back elbow slots correctly, the hips should lead automatically.

I've never thought about the top hand as pulling on the handle. However, I just did some quick experimenting and I think the girls could relate to that cue. My only concern is with the direction of the pull. IMO the pull needs to be perpendicular to the pitch, if I'm understanding you correctly.

 

[RayR]

As just a follow up on this:

If the top hand pulls without a good eoungh pull from the bottom hand you get too wrapped. Maybe this is part of what is happeing to my hitter, but she had this pattern before. Just something to watch for.

Also, what I think I am finding out is that my girls (the ones that have not had the AHA moment) are not pulling long enough with the top hand. They tell me they are pulling, but I think they release too soon.

So, my daughter and I end up fighting about it. Pull! I am pulling! No, you're not! Yes, I am! HAHA - we have fun...

Maybe for some resisting is a better word...

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I never doubted connection - I just don't agree with a preset connection and trying to hold it...I like to think of it more as syncing up...gives me visual of things aligning correctly - instead of a static position.

Agree ... pre-set connection is 'bad', as is lack of connection ... the establishment of connection needs to be timed to occur at swing initiation. The thought of "syncing up" is right on the money.