Knee saver opinions/recommendation

[Greenmonsters]

And all of these wall sits put wear and tear on the knees while building the calf and thigh muscles while putting undo stress on ligaments and tendions. Nobody yet, in my opinion has given a valid reason for not using them.

I think we are getting into the realm of the face mask discussions.

Below is a copy of NECC's April 2012 tip of the month (link is here April 2012-Tip of the Month | The New England Catching Camp )

"Running a camp for catchers around the country, this is definitely one of the most common questions we are asked. Personally, I never liked wearing them. But of the 100+ catchers who attend our two weeks of summer camp each year, usually more then 40 will wear them. Now technically speaking, a catcher with a good stance will almost never touch them unless they are in the sign-giving stance. However, the question that has always bothered my father and I was what amount of research was done in the development of the Knee Savers regarding catchers, prolonged squatting, and eventual knee damage anyway.

To get that answer we spoke at lengh with Dr. Douglas Farrago, the doctor in Maine who actually designed them, patented them in 1991, and sold the rights to Easton. What we learned was that there was no specific study done relating to catchers or sports at all. Certainly not on the preventative value of knee savers on young healthy athletes. All of the research which was done, and the subsequent conclusions drawn from that research, was from work done with coal miners. You know, 6-ft tall, middle-aged miners in 4-ft high caves. Lots of squatting going on there for sure. The application for catchers was a spinoff from that research, and when it was applied to catchers it was initially applied to older MLB catchers with existing knee conditions.

Dr. Farrago made it very clear that the Knee Savers MUST be worn on the lower strap settings to avoid putting pressure on the back side of the knee joint. He gave the example of placing a tennis ball behind your knee and duct taping it there and then attempting to crouch. The damage done from placing those pads directly behind the knee will far outweigh the damage done over time while playing the position without them.

Now, seeing that the knee is designed to bend that way, we also asked him whether it is the mere act of repeated squatting that causes this damage or something else? My father’s illustration was “why are their entire Asian cultures that spend more time in a catchers squat position as a daily routine and no real increase in degenerative knee disorders? Elderly people in these cultures are in that position for hours a day, yet they do not seem to need Knee Savers.” Dr. Farrago had thought about that situation himself and does not have a medical reason why they do not suffer from this “catcher specific” problem. He questioned whether it may have to do with the fact that from childhood these people sit that way, but he was not positive.

However, after talking with a few more doctors regarding this matter, it was explained to me that although the crouching position does tend to put some added strain on the knee joint, there is a chance it is the constant standing back up that could really be the key to the added wear and tear on a catcher’s knees. Sometimes even getting up out of the crouch in a very explosive and violent manner.

So it is clear that many older adult catchers have been able to lengthen their careers after knee injuries with Knee Savers, but anything more is still up in the air. At the very least, please make sure that if your catcher is wearing them, they NEED to be properly attached to the shin guards on the lowest possible strap setting (as pictured above).

Thanks for reading this month’s Tip of the Month

Please remember to Like us on Facebook and keep an eye out for May’s Tip of the Month!
From behind the mask,

Jay Weaver - Director of Operations"

 

[sb03dad]

Per Jay at NECC. Knee Savers were designed for miners. To allow for squatting and sitting for extended periods of time in cramped quarters. They do nothing to make a catcher better in any stance. They do put undo stress on the knee if worn high on the calf. They also impede the catcher's ability to run toward first when backing up on a throw.

Should a catcher stop using them? Not if not having them on diminishes their confidence in playing the position. But in the long run, they don't do anything to make the catcher better at receiving, blocking or throwing.

Damage to the knees isn't necessarily due to the squatting position. In some Asian cultures, people squat for hours with no knee problems. The damage is from the sudden, and sometimes awkward, up and down motion from the squatting position.

DD dropped her's because she felt they got in her way. and she thought they were sissy. Whatever.

 

[sb03dad]

well cr*p, too slow. Thx Greenie.

 

[collinspc]

They also impede the catcher's ability to run toward first when backing up on a throw.
.

Where did you see this stated? I missed it in Jays message.

 

[collinspc]

Below is a copy of NECC's April 2012 tip of the month (link is here April 2012-Tip of the Month | The New England Catching Camp )

"Running a camp for catchers around the country, this is definitely one of the most common questions we are asked. Personally, I never liked wearing them. But of the 100+ catchers who attend our two weeks of summer camp each year, usually more then 40 will wear them. Now technically speaking, a catcher with a good stance will almost never touch them unless they are in the sign-giving stance. However, the question that has always bothered my father and I was what amount of research was done in the development of the Knee Savers regarding catchers, prolonged squatting, and eventual knee damage anyway.

To get that answer we spoke at lengh with Dr. Douglas Farrago, the doctor in Maine who actually designed them, patented them in 1991, and sold the rights to Easton. What we learned was that there was no specific study done relating to catchers or sports at all. Certainly not on the preventative value of knee savers on young healthy athletes. All of the research which was done, and the subsequent conclusions drawn from that research, was from work done with coal miners. You know, 6-ft tall, middle-aged miners in 4-ft high caves. Lots of squatting going on there for sure. The application for catchers was a spinoff from that research, and when it was applied to catchers it was initially applied to older MLB catchers with existing knee conditions.

Dr. Farrago made it very clear that the Knee Savers MUST be worn on the lower strap settings to avoid putting pressure on the back side of the knee joint. He gave the example of placing a tennis ball behind your knee and duct taping it there and then attempting to crouch. The damage done from placing those pads directly behind the knee will far outweigh the damage done over time while playing the position without them.

Now, seeing that the knee is designed to bend that way, we also asked him whether it is the mere act of repeated squatting that causes this damage or something else? My father’s illustration was “why are their entire Asian cultures that spend more time in a catchers squat position as a daily routine and no real increase in degenerative knee disorders? Elderly people in these cultures are in that position for hours a day, yet they do not seem to need Knee Savers.” Dr. Farrago had thought about that situation himself and does not have a medical reason why they do not suffer from this “catcher specific” problem. He questioned whether it may have to do with the fact that from childhood these people sit that way, but he was not positive.

However, after talking with a few more doctors regarding this matter, it was explained to me that although the crouching position does tend to put some added strain on the knee joint, there is a chance it is the constant standing back up that could really be the key to the added wear and tear on a catcher’s knees. Sometimes even getting up out of the crouch in a very explosive and violent manner.

So it is clear that many older adult catchers have been able to lengthen their careers after knee injuries with Knee Savers, but anything more is still up in the air. At the very least, please make sure that if your catcher is wearing them, they NEED to be properly attached to the shin guards on the lowest possible strap setting (as pictured above).

Thanks for reading this month’s Tip of the Month

Please remember to Like us on Facebook and keep an eye out for May’s Tip of the Month!
From behind the mask,

Jay Weaver - Director of Operations"

Still no valid reason not to use them when worn properly, if that is why you quoted me with your response.

Dave Weaver in a post here on DFP found no reason not to use them if the player wanted. At this point anyone posting against them has only argued that they don't like them, make you a worse catcher, make you look lazy, make you look slower, not shown that they are damaging..............

In the end it will be up to my daughter and son to decide if they want to use them as they catch longer in games. If they feel that it keeps the quads from fatigue longer then they can wear them. If they feel they are a hindrance then they can go without.

 

[guero_gordo]

The other point Coach Dave Weaver used to make was that installed correctly, they can only provide rest in the sign-giving position, not in either of the receiving stances. Over the course of a weekend, this might add up to a significant amount, depending on pace, length of innings, etc.

Good to make sure your C is using a resting stance whenever practicable as well.

 

[Axe]

And all of these wall sits put wear and tear on the knees while building the calf and thigh muscles while putting undo stress on ligaments and tendions. Nobody yet, in my opinion has given a valid reason for not using them.

I think we are getting into the realm of the face mask discussions.

Sorry to hijack but how do wall sits put wear and tear on the knee? The knee is at a 90 degree angle.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

There are still many populations in the world that squat. I wonder if that would be a market for Knee Savers?

 

[collinspc]

There are still many populations in the world that squat. I wonder if that would be a market for Knee Savers?

You should get the marketing rights for those areas Amy, could be very lucrative.

 

[sbmom19]

Sorry to hijack but how do wall sits put wear and tear on the knee? The knee is at a 90 degree angle.

DD's trainer believes that the best way to protect the knees and back of a catcher is to strengthen the thigh muscles and the core. Walls sits (especially with weight and one leg raised) strengthens the thighs and the stomach muscles.