Is a fastball really just a drop ball?

[Dave619]

A few weeks ago I was watching one of Hillhouse's videos. In the video he basically said something to the effect that there really isn't a fastball. What people call a fastball is really a drop ball.

I also saw this written by Rubber Biscuit in the thread on "What is the most effective pitch"....

"Well almost every pitcher is taught a fastball with some level of drop to it. It is a natural pitch to see for a batter and they have been seeing it since they were 8 years old."

Do you believe/teach that a FB and Drop are two distinct pitches? Or do you see a FB as a drop? If so, then do you look at a drop as a pitch you throw at different levels depending on count, etc?

When my DD throws her FB and her Drop they basically look the same. Sometimes the drop has more break on it, etc. Her drop is her primary pitch. So I am wondering....should she be throwing a FB for placement and then a drop out of the strike zone? or should we be throwing a drop in the strike zone and on out of the zone?

Thanks for giving me your perspective on this!

 

[Ken B]

A FB is whatever spin a kid can throw hard. Often times, a FB is somewhat spiral. If it happens to spin 12/6 with an axis straight on, you've got a basic peel. The faster a kid can control the spin and speed, the faster they will progress. Once a kid has a good drop spin, they can work on adding more English to really get it working. The basic FB becomes less effective past 12U, so learning to spin and change speeds becomes the focus.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

I would recommend that your DD works on changing speeds with her Drop if they are very similar pitches.

 

[JAD]

Every fastball will eventually drop.....gravity still applies. How quickly depends on how hard the ball is thrown and what type of spin is on the ball when it leaves the pitchers hand.

 

[SBFAMILY]

If you watch slow motion video all pitches drop. Based on the spin some less than others, some more than others.

 

[Ken B]

When my DD throws her FB and her Drop they basically look the same. Sometimes the drop has more break on it, etc. Her drop is her primary pitch. So I am wondering....should she be throwing a FB for placement and then a drop out of the strike zone? or should we be throwing a drop in the strike zone and on out of the zone?

I've seen kids rely on their speed and placement into 14U, but without at least a couple more tools in the box, they were dropped to the #2-3 spots. Find the feel/cues that work for her and get control of her drop. With some work, she can get three speeds/plains out of it and be very effective (with a good catcher...) Meanwhile learn a nasty change and think about adding a rise.

 

[coach james]

For us, here. We teach the drop ball has the thumb on the side of the ball with maximum 12/6 rotation. A fast ball has the thumb in line with the gap between the index and middle finger and the release is more feathered, thus creating a bullet spin. There is gravity affecting all pitches, however the velocity and spin direction either fights it or goes with it. So a good fast ball may only drop 1", where a good drop can potentially drop 8-9" ....two very different pitches.

 

[starsnuffer]

Spin dictates the pitch. If the ball is spinning 12/6 then it's a drop ball. If it's spinning with bullet spin then its a fastball.

-W

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Spin dictates the pitch. If the ball is spinning 12/6 then it's a drop ball. If it's spinning with bullet spin then its a fastball.

-W

I don't see it that way. See Coach James description above.

A fastball can still spin 12-6 with little to no drop. A true drop ball spins more (released earlier for the Peel) and drops 6 - 8 inches.

A turnover drop is thrown completely different but still achieves the 6-8 inches of drop.

All completely different pitches in my opinion.

It's the movement not the spin.

 

[sluggers]

PapaPump, you've come upon the exact thing that we mean when we say a "real" breaking ball. There are lots of pitchers who think they are throwing a curve/screw/rise/drop, when they are not.

You can look at the RevFire stats for spin. Link to RevFire stats

If you look at the stats, 50% of the kids threw a drop ball with 17 RPS or less of spin. Then, there were 10% of the kids throwing with a spin greater than 22 RPS, or about 30% more spin. Then, there were less than 5% of the kids throwing with 24RPS (about 50% more) spin. So, the very few kids throwing with 24RPS or higher spin are getting a lot more break on the ball than everyone else.

The funny thing is that all these kids who can't throw a drop think they are throwing a drop.

If you can't see the difference between your DD's fastball and your DD's drop, then she IS NOT THROWING A DROP.

But, some Daddies would prefer to pretend that their DD is throwing a great drop ball...or, would prefer to think that no one can throw real breaking pitches. Read up on "cognitive dissonance"...