Help with 12U DD throwing. Elbow pain.

[jryan15]

Recently DD has been been having some pain in her elbow and a little in her upper back when throwing. I'm posting slow motion videos of her short and long throws. I know that she isn't doing to well with lower body mechanics, but any more torque on her forearm, and it just might tear off . Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Here are pictures of where it hurts.

Elbow


Back


Here are videos of her short throw.
Side
[video]http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/jryan15/?action=view&current=ShortThrowside1.mp4[/video]

Front
[video]http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/jryan15/?action=view&current=ShortThrowfront1.mp4[/video]

Here are videos of her long throw.
Side
[video]http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/jryan15/?action=view&current=LongThrowside1.mp4[/video]

Front
[video]http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/jryan15/?action=view&current=LongThrowfront1.mp4[/video]

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Jryan, If you brought her to me, we would eliminate the thumb to the thigh and having the ball face behind her. Her elbow is too low, so she is compensating with her shoulder blade, so to speak.

I do not teach dropping the ball low. I pull the ball back past my ear, a weight shift occurs, my elbow is level to above my shoulder and then, I keep the ball out in line with my glove (that is pointing at the target.) It is hard to explain the feet, but I turn on my right foot and the left foot steps and lines up with it.

I will let others chime in, now. I would insist that your DD rest and I would ice the 2 muscles that are telling her "Don't do that."

 

[cshilt]

I'd suggest you review this thread on throwing: http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-fielding/7915-throwing.html

Your DD is dropping her lead elbow below the shoulder level, as Amy noted, and this is what is causing the strain.

 

[redhotcoach]

Just seeing a little bit, (on my iphone at work and vid isnt loading very quickly). So looking at her from the front, say she is pitcher, camera is catcher. When she loads her throw all the way back, imo she brings the ball way too far back toward third base. I tell my girls when facing them I should see the ball a bit, it shouldn't be hidden behind their head, but a little bit on first base side of their head, if they are southpaw. She stretches it a good 16 inches farther then that.
When she is in the throw #1 it is mostly her arm powering it, not a kinectic chain starting at the ground and working up and finally to arm. At the point of "lag" where you see her elbow leading her hand and ball, I have only seen one other girl that is so flexible that her hand and ball are almost lower then her elbow. She goes through a cycle of arm pain too. Her dad and I work on the throw, it is good for a while, then somewhere a couple of bad throws sneak in and it hurts too bad to throw for a week or so.

 

[austinwass]

Jryan15,

Please email me and we can discuss further about her throwing mechanics. In the meantime, check this article I wrote about Softball Players and Elbow Pain. I see some very profound inefficiencies in her throw that is most likely causing this pain.

Why Your Softball Players Have Elbow Pain: Wrist Flick Edition


austin@abathletics.com

 

[Bflee350]

Way to much external rotation of shoulder. ( external rotation occurs when her elbow is dropping & she brings the ball back behind shoulder). When she does that she is putting a ton of tork on her elbow & rotated cuff. The muscle in the back of her shoulder is more then likely the supraspinatus muscle which is 1 of the 4 rotated cuff muscles. Need rest & ice until soreness subsides.

 

[Bflee350]

Spell. Check sucks. In my previous reply rotated cuff is really rotater cuff. Lol

 

[Coletrain]

Jryan15,

Please email me and we can discuss further about her throwing mechanics. In the meantime, check this article I wrote about Softball Players and Elbow Pain. I see some very profound inefficiencies in her throw that is most likely causing this pain.

Why Your Softball Players Have Elbow Pain: Wrist Flick Edition


austin@abathletics.com

Austin can help! He did a great job helping me improve my DD's throwing. She went from one hopping throws to first from SS to making every throw in the IF in about 5-6 weeks.

 

[jryan15]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm completely at fault for not working the glove waiving out of her mechanics long ago. We will work on this and will repost with results. I am still having trouble understanding how to work the excessive external rotation of her humerus out of her throw. I thought with a ground up throw, the humerus was supposed to externally rotate? Should she restrict / resist external rotation of the humerus? Will this eliminate arm whip? (Please don’t take these questions the wrong way; I’m just trying to find out where I misinterpreted what I’ve read in other throwing posts).

Austinwas,
I really appreciate your articles and have spent a lot of time on your website, I’m reluctant to say that I’ve read/watched that article like a hundred times over the last 10 months. I’ve actually forwarded it to several people. I’ve obviously misunderstood some of the drills, especially the “arm behind throwing drill”. Before this year DD has flat out been shot putting the ball. The entire reason that we started focusing on bringing the hand / ball behind the head was due to the Wasserman Strength article and from several Hansen Principle references in the “Throwing” thread of high level throws that demonstrate the ball going behind the head. Austinwas, I do plan on emailing you for additional offline recommendations. I have no doubt that I have misinterpreted what I have seen in that article. It's all really confusing.

Amy in AZ., thanks for your comments. It took me a while to figure out your comment on eliminating the thumb to the thigh thing, but I know now that you were referring to the downward sweep of the ball hand. I must say that I have seen many hard throwing girls who only bring the ball back to their ear. In a lot of the cases the motion looks for lack of a better work, incomplete, but once they let loose that canon, a lot of things can be over looked. Several times I’ve noticed hard throws in which the hand/ball never appear to cross behind the elbow.