2nd and SS Starting Positions – Rec. League

[chinamigarden]

Relearning the game is not that tough as the kids get older. There are tons of exceptions and changes we make as they progress. At 9 we tell them to get in front of every grounder. By 14 we are telling them to either go around the ball or backhand it for a quicker throw. At 9 we tell them to throw overhand at 16 a girl who plays on the left side of the infield is commended for her side arm quick release. In soccer they slowly introduce the offsides rule in many leagues and play with less players on smaller fields. But by HS age they are on the full field with the OS rule called.

It doesn't hurt them to learn the game in stages. But the stages have to make sense within the game. Having an outfielder (rover) cover second on every play, is IMHO does not make sense within the game. To teach 10u middle infielders to go for the easiest base and to not worry about the second out, that makes sense to me. Why? Because its a progression within the sense of the game, we would tell an 18u team to make sure of out 1 before worrying about out 2. As others have pointed out, I would worry more about the steal attempt and the ss being able to make it to the base in time.

One caveat, I would allow the talent of the players dictate what adjustments I make. If they are all studs who can handle making the turn, have them give it a go.

 

[quincy]

Having an outfielder (rover) cover second on every play, is IMHO does not make sense within the game.

Agree with you.

The rover covering 2nd base works really well, dummies down the 2nd and SS position. The C also has a better look when throwing it to 2nd. I hate it but lost the discussion, I am really happy we only have 3 OFs this year.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Keep in mind that this is rec ball we're talking about.

I don't have any firsthand observations of Quincy's team, but just from reading many of his other posts, I've come away with the impression that they're a relatively inexperienced group of players and coaches. I'm not saying that you don't teach them anything at all, but I am saying that it may not be reasonable to expect them to understand the concepts some of you are talking about let alone being able to execute them.

I know of several rec leagues that still play 4 outfielders in 10u, and this includes some leagues that have a lot of talent. But, what they're up against is a lack of facilities, so they have to limit the number of teams they have. In order to get everyone more time on the field, they play 10 instead of 9. It has everything to do with participation. There's no intent to dumb the game down.

Chinamigarden is 100% correct - you can only coach the skill level you have to work with, and in rec, you have to figure out ways to teach the game to beginners in language they understand and by giving them assignments they can execute.

 

[Steve Huff]

Relearning the game is not that tough as the kids get older. There are tons of exceptions and changes we make as they progress. At 9 we tell them to get in front of every grounder. By 14 we are telling them to either go around the ball or backhand it for a quicker throw. At 9 we tell them to throw overhand at 16 a girl who plays on the left side of the infield is commended for her side arm quick release. In soccer they slowly introduce the offsides rule in many leagues and play with less players on smaller fields. But by HS age they are on the full field with the OS rule called.

It doesn't hurt them to learn the game in stages. But the stages have to make sense within the game. Having an outfielder (rover) cover second on every play, is IMHO does not make sense within the game. To teach 10u middle infielders to go for the easiest base and to not worry about the second out, that makes sense to me. Why? Because its a progression within the sense of the game, we would tell an 18u team to make sure of out 1 before worrying about out 2. As others have pointed out, I would worry more about the steal attempt and the ss being able to make it to the base in time.

One caveat, I would allow the talent of the players dictate what adjustments I make. If they are all studs who can handle making the turn, have them give it a go.

I agree with your comments. I have two sets of infield assignments in bunt and cutoff situations based on age. Younger kids have weaker arms. And what this does is prolong vestiges of improper cuttoff assignments in older ages, not because of the older kids ability, but coaches don't adapt because of a lack of knowlege or experience. There is a thread where I discussed cutoff assignments and proper positioning. Some advocated still having the 2B run out into RF and take the cutoff throw. And this is pretty much necessary for younger kids. But why would you do this in HS, TB, or college.

Where physical limitations encourage adjustments I think this is perfectly normal and essential. Where things are complex, accomodations and adjustments have to be made. But keeping kids in kindergarten will not encourage enthusiasm. So I agree, adjuest the skill set with age.

 

[Steve Huff]

Keep in mind that the fields young fp players use are often slowpitch distance and the fences are further than college and HS fences. The balls can roll far in a hurry with nothing to stop them.

At no level does a ball get beyond the outfield and a cutoff not move out and take a cut. So that negates the field size. The bigger the field, the bigger the distance, the greater the distance of the first two throws. And sometimes this is because fields are bigger.

 

[Steve Huff]

I thought you said the 2b should not go out for a throw?

And I also forgot to add that travel uses the slowpitch fields here at all ages. It is a long way from the warning track on a slowpitch field to 2B.

I also allow the outfield to throw through the outfield cut to a base (ie if the SS or 2B has gone out). And the angle, such as to Rf to 3B affects this.

Plus it seems to me if I have not said this before that the 1B cutoff at the pitchers mound area can end up being cramped in some situations. I really need to read up on this with diagrams or videos (tv never shows it clearly), hard to think about when it is not happening in front of you.

However, I would not teach the young kids the wrong thing on this topic, as well as covering 2b on steal. I would just prioritize the stages; they don't need to know every possible play to get through a game. Kids often figure out on their own. It is painful to teach it over and change the habit.

Well Screwball I use two different setups depending on age level. I don't expect young kids to use complicated cutoff assignments. But if the ball is hit through or over the outfield, I have the SS take the cutoff on the LF, CF sides, and 2B on the RF to RCF sides. The other infielder backs up the throw, directs the throw, and backs up an errant throw, in which case everyone would score including the batter. Then the 2nd throw is to the cutoff in the infield area, who will cut if directed to do so, to take an offline throw and redirect, or throw to a base which is a better option. Now with young kids, if a ball gets to the fence, they are all going to score. And I don't use double-cutoffs for younger or more "challenged" kids.

 

[quincy]

Now with young kids, if a ball gets to the fence, they are all going to score.

3rd is the farthest the runner will get if they are fast, they will be out if they try to go home. Been proven a few times.

 

[JAD]

If you are looking for an out the play should always go to 1st, unless a ball takes your SS toward 2nd and she can just step on the bag. The runner on 1st will have a two step head start towards 2nd if she fires off when the pitcher releases the ball, therefore, the easier play is always to 1st. Not to mention that your first baseman is usually a bigger target than 2nd or SS.

 

[Axe]

The problem is practice time. In 10U and 12U rec these types of force plays are very rare. Why, because 2nd base generally gets stolen on the 1st or 2nd pitch of the next batter's at bat. I would love to teach players to make this play correctly but why would I use some of my valuable 1.5 hrs per week to do it when I could be teaching fundamentals that they might actually use. I understand all the posts saying that they should be taught the right way, but for a play that happens so infrequently at that level of play it just doesn't add up.

 

[Ktowncoach]

I coach a 10u rec team with 5 kids moving up from 8u, 5 kids who have never played softball before and 2 that played in 10u last year. The 5 kids who moved up from 8u who are my best by the way would give you an answer like this: If 1 out they would get the lead runner out at 2B with 2B or SS covering the bag based on what side of the field is hit on and with 2 outs 2B would throw to first and SS would throw to 2B because it is the shorter throw. We kicked off the league round robin this weekend and I saw those very plays several times.