Urban legend?? "Lose game if you mess up DP/flex"

[Momo'sDad]

Someone recently threw a scare tactic at our team's coaches, I think. They were told by an unnamed UIC that they would 'lose the game' if they used the DP/flex incorrectly during a game.

I am not an ASA rules expert, but I have never heard of this before. After the conversation, the 2 coaches reported to me that their understanding was that, if a violation of the DP/flex rules was discovered during or right AFTER a game by the opposing team, that the team could lodge a protest and they'd win it and, as a result, the game would be forfeited by the team that committed the violation.

My understanding(s):

1. offended team must make notice of protest before umpires leave the field

2. a violation of DP/flex substitution rules would make the player illegal, but not ineligible

3. that an ineligible player is always illegal, but that an illegal player is not necessarily ineligible

4. that ineligible players include - too old for an age division (a 13yo playing 10u), a player who has already been ejected from the game, a player who is currently suspended

5. that use of an ineligible player - if properly protested - does result in a forfeit

6. that use of an illegal player as the result of umpire's misinterpretation of substitution rules does not result in a forfeit after protest, that instead, the game would be replayed from the point where the mistake was discovered and protest lodged

 

[MTR]

Someone recently threw a scare tactic at our team's coaches, I think. They were told by an unnamed UIC that they would 'lose the game' if they used the DP/flex incorrectly during a game.

Rubbish. The only things that could bring a forfeit directly from screwing up the DP/Flex would be if you did not have a substitute available if necessary, or you willfully violated the rule after being warned.

Any "protest" honored would simply bring you back to the field and resume the game from that point.

Now, this could be a local or tournament rule.

 

[David Carter]

Someone recently threw a scare tactic at our team's coaches, I think. They were told by an unnamed UIC that they would 'lose the game' if they used the DP/flex incorrectly during a game.

I am not an ASA rules expert, but I have never heard of this before. After the conversation, the 2 coaches reported to me that their understanding was that, if a violation of the DP/flex rules was discovered during or right AFTER a game by the opposing team, that the team could lodge a protest and they'd win it and, as a result, the game would be forfeited by the team that committed the violation.

My understanding(s):

1. offended team must make notice of protest before umpires leave the field

2. a violation of DP/flex substitution rules would make the player illegal, but not ineligible

3. that an ineligible player is always illegal, but that an illegal player is not necessarily ineligible

4. that ineligible players include - too old for an age division (a 13yo playing 10u), a player who has already been ejected from the game, a player who is currently suspended

5. that use of an ineligible player - if properly protested - does result in a forfeit

6. that use of an illegal player as the result of umpire's misinterpretation of substitution rules does not result in a forfeit after protest, that instead, the game would be replayed from the point where the mistake was discovered and protest lodged

First Caveat..individual tournaments, directors and leagues can set up crazy/silly rules and do all the time.

Biggest thing to do first is get our terms straight which may not be easy (some use same terms to mean different things):

Illegal to me (and ASA) is someone either in the field or line up where/when they are not supposed to be.

Ineligible to me (and ASA) is someone that does not meet the requirements set forth by the organization...this can not be determined by the umpire, usually a age or dual roster situation.

I think you have everything correctly interpreted. They only one I am not sure about is 6, as long as you are talking about a situation where an umpire makes a substitution ruling and applies the rule incorrectly and the manager then initiates a protest to that effect, I think you are correct.