Suggestion on the old 'Crow Hop' complaint.

[halskinner]

Good morning,

I have seen countless coaches complain to umpires that the opossing pitcher was 'Crow Hopping' and ask for a ruling.

The coach would point out the footprint in the circle where the pivot foot came forward of the rubber. The other coach, in defense, would say "But she ddidnt push off, look at the footprint again". Everyone would and the umps would say we cant tell so noCrow Hop was the resulting decision.

Please consider this if you run into the same complaint. I see no way any umpire can enforce the Crow Hop regulation ands I thi nk it would be an effort in futility to even consider it.

However, what also must occur to bring on that complaint is this; The pivot foot must come forward of the rubber, then the stride foot comes forward of the pivot foot. Unless my math is wrong here, that is 2 steps and you are only allowed one, IP. I have seen this argument won many times, I cant recall ever seeing the Crow Hop argument won.

Just a suggestion from an old pitcher.

Not a hard call to make because if the pivot foot comes forward first, tthen the stride foot, everyone sees THAT happening!

 

[MTR]

No intelligent umpire is going to walk out to the PP to determine whether a crow hop was used in the delivery of a pitch especially with a coach.

The violation can be seen by umpires, but more likely only from a line, not the plate or the center of the field.

 

[David Carter]

Usually you see umpires watching pitchers warm up if they have never seen them before just to see if it looks like there are any mechanical issues that might look like anything close to an illegal pitch. I have on more than one occasion as the first base coach chatted up the first base ump before play started about how the pitcher looked. I think it is pretty obvious fairly quickly if there is any question, as base coach you can usually get a pretty good idea about whether the first base ump cares.

You can always say it will never get called or illegal pitches just never get called at the elite level but if you think about it every year you see one or two pitchers in the World Series get called out for something they have been doing all year and gotten away with...is it fair, not really since it just shows that the NCAA umpires are not making standardized ruling but they are also sending a message that pitchers need to stay legal and at the elite level whether you are getting away with it or not you and your coaches know if you are living on the edge.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Data point : here at the TN Tech camp there must have been a hundred 2014 pitchers. I would estimate 10-15% were blatant "skippies". Another 10-15% were marginal. Their hitch in their delivery was easy to pick out and then your eyes can go down to their feet to confirm. It's just so frustrating to see these girls doing it the wrong way. I was amazed when one of the many coaches here, but only one time, suggested a pitcher learn to drag her foot and it looked like she had ripped her heart out. I wanted to punch that girls back-home pc in the nose right then and there!

 

[halskinner]

Data point : here at the TN Tech camp there must have been a hundred 2014 pitchers. I would estimate 10-15% were blatant "skippies". Another 10-15% were marginal. Their hitch in their delivery was easy to pick out and then your eyes can go down to their feet to confirm. It's just so frustrating to see these girls doing it the wrong way. I was amazed when one of the many coaches here, but only one time, suggested a pitcher learn to drag her foot and it looked like she had ripped her heart out. I wanted to punch that girls back-home pc in the nose right then and there!

The way open pitching mechanics are being pushed hot and heavy now, expect those percentages to double or triple soon.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

I would LOVE to poll a bunch of big school coaches and get their current thoughts on this.

Do they view these "skippy" (crow-hopping) pitchers as having a critical flaw or do they look right past it?

Do they just think that they can get the girl into their system and "they can change that motion" (the one they have been using for over ten years)?

Could it be that they are just not aware of this risk?

What do these "hiring" coaches think on this?

 

[MTR]

IMO, the college coaches do not care as long as wins go up on the board. If the pitcher can change, great. If they cannot and it doesn't get called, why would the coaches care? The coaches do know a pitcher is illegal. Anyone who says they do not must not be that good of a coach to start.

A few years ago when the umpires WERE DIRECTED to call the IPs they saw, the coaches went wild to the point the umpires were told to "soften" it up a little and always give the benefit of any doubt to the pitcher. Well, with some umpires that meant "put your hand in your pocket" and don't call anything. To others, it meant doing their job and call it when they see it.

Even through the NCAA Championships, pitchers were getting caught and called. You would think after watching this happen for more than 3 months, the coaches would wise up. Well, they didn't and continued to put pitchers in the circle that they KNEW were illegal. I can only guess that they were assuming the umpire wouldn't call it or they could intimidate the umpires into overlooking their "ace" because she was an "ace".

Watched a load of games that series and even the Talking Heads pointed out the violations and the reason, but eventually turned on the umpires wanting to know why the umpires couldn't adjust to the violators instead of pondering why the violators couldn't adjust to the rules. The coaches never argued the point of the violation, but the fact that the umpire called it. The whines went on and on, from the "no one has called that all year" to "don't you know how important this game is to us", etc., but never heard a coach go on air and state that his/her pitcher wasn't illegal. Then you would get the teary-eyed youngster on air sobbing that, "I haven't been called illegal all year", when it takes about a minute to check NCAA stats to find out that this pitcher had been called dozens of times during the season and that only notes when baserunners were advanced, not the IP which occurred with the bases empty.

I asked an NCAA Rep the following November if they would be looking at tweaking the rules or eliminate the leap (most noted violation) in the coming years. The response was, "they will probably look at it, but probably not change it without checking on the effect allowing such pitches would have on the pitchers". It seems that the NCAA thought it was easier to start over with a new officiating staff (fired lead umpire, staff followed with resignations) than to have their coaches insist on the game being played by the rules.

Were some umpires nit-picking that year? Maybe, probably....definite yes in some areas. However, umpires call what they are directed to call or may not see the field at that level again. And since the NCAA game is basically coach-driven, the umpires are always going to be the scapegoats, but in reality, are not doing anything they were not told to do by the NCAA.

 

[Ajaywill]

Coaches all know when pitchers are illegal.....it's always the other team's pitcher though....

 

[inde53546]

Does the home plate ump have to call an IP or can the field ump call as well?

 

[Comp]

Either can call illegal pitches, but generally the plate umpire is repsonsible for the hands and the pitching lane, the base umpire watches the feet.