What difference does it make if the offensive coach called his players over during a defensive time out? If there were no runners and the catcher called time and then the coach came out later what do you have? It becomes a defensive conference. Having runners does not change that.
Player Conferences
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- May 29, 2015
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There is conflict in the definition and the rule.
Definition:
Rule: (sorry for the stitching, it's on two pages)
My interpretation is the definition intends to define the charged conference as one where the coach participates. Claiming it cannot be a charged conference because the coach didn't ask for it does make sense in the spirit of the game (more on that below).
Either way, this part is very clear:
So if the pitcher and catcher meet, it is not a charged conference (although, as I stated before, I would like to see it become one). If the offensive coach meets with a player at that point, that becomes a charged conference since that coach is initiating the request for a charged conference.
If you really want to hang your hat on the issue of the coach not making the request, then the question becomes: how many times are you going to let players go over to talk to their coach? Are you going to allow a defensive coach to skirt that rule by having the pitcher come to the dugout and talk to him through the fence every batter? (We wouldn't want the offense stealing signs, now!)
Definition:
Rule: (sorry for the stitching, it's on two pages)
My interpretation is the definition intends to define the charged conference as one where the coach participates. Claiming it cannot be a charged conference because the coach didn't ask for it does make sense in the spirit of the game (more on that below).
Either way, this part is very clear:
So if the pitcher and catcher meet, it is not a charged conference (although, as I stated before, I would like to see it become one). If the offensive coach meets with a player at that point, that becomes a charged conference since that coach is initiating the request for a charged conference.
If you really want to hang your hat on the issue of the coach not making the request, then the question becomes: how many times are you going to let players go over to talk to their coach? Are you going to allow a defensive coach to skirt that rule by having the pitcher come to the dugout and talk to him through the fence every batter? (We wouldn't want the offense stealing signs, now!)
You are interpreting things that are not there. You cannot provide a case play, interpretation or rule clarification that the offense meeting during a defensive time out becomes a charged conference. That rule simply states when one team has a charged conference so may the other without being charged. It says nothing about it will become a charged conference if a team meets during a time out. You are extrapolating something the rule does not say.
There is a case play somewhere, or rule clarification regarding exactly what you are asking. If a defensive player delays the game to go over to the dugout to talk with the coach, that is a charged conference.
There is a case play somewhere, or rule clarification regarding exactly what you are asking. If a defensive player delays the game to go over to the dugout to talk with the coach, that is a charged conference.
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- May 29, 2015
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Correct. It isn't there either way, so we must interpret it. Can you provide the case play, interpretation, or rule clarification saying it is NOT a charged conference? Neither of us can ... although I had hoped somebody could just to resolve this weird issue that seems to have reared its head this year.
1.) What is it when a coach asks to stop play to meet with a player?
Answer: a charged conference.
2.) When is it NOT a charged conference?
Answer: BY RULE: When there is a pitching change (although that little bugaboo was pointed out earlier), for an injury check, when a coach is not present (see definition), when the other team is already in a charged conference.
3.) What is it when a coach meets with a player when the other team is NOT in a charged conference?
Answer: See #1
I would like to see a case play clarifying NFHS's desire. As @Nasolis said, this seems to be going on a state-by-state basis. We were instructed in our clinic this year to call it a charged conference. (FYI, I argued against it at the time.)
Then again, I also discredit NFHS case plays since the only way you can get them is to pay them (buy the book for $10 or rent the e-book ONLY on their app now for $7). Doesn't sound as if they really want that knowledge in umpires' hands ... they just want us paying for that.
1.) What is it when a coach asks to stop play to meet with a player?
Answer: a charged conference.
2.) When is it NOT a charged conference?
Answer: BY RULE: When there is a pitching change (although that little bugaboo was pointed out earlier), for an injury check, when a coach is not present (see definition), when the other team is already in a charged conference.
3.) What is it when a coach meets with a player when the other team is NOT in a charged conference?
Answer: See #1
I would like to see a case play clarifying NFHS's desire. As @Nasolis said, this seems to be going on a state-by-state basis. We were instructed in our clinic this year to call it a charged conference. (FYI, I argued against it at the time.)
Then again, I also discredit NFHS case plays since the only way you can get them is to pay them (buy the book for $10 or rent the e-book ONLY on their app now for $7). Doesn't sound as if they really want that knowledge in umpires' hands ... they just want us paying for that.
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You do realize that the 2 rulesets that do restrict runners to bases or it becomes a charged conference both specifically address it in their rules? They both state runners are restricted to the vicinity of their bases during a defensive time out. No other ruleset I am aware of has any wording of the sort. And I know for a fact that USA does have a case play or clarification stating the offense is free to meet during a timeout without penalty, as long as they are ready to play when the timeout is over.
- May 29, 2015
- 3,813
- 113
stop talking so much and play the game
We're trying to run the clock out so no new argument can start.
- May 29, 2015
- 3,813
- 113
Honestly, I've only seen the question in the context of NFHS. I haven't looked at the other rulesets on this question. Regardless, NEVER apply rules from one ruleset to another (even if they stole the language from that one!).
- May 29, 2015
- 3,813
- 113
I'll throw you this bone, @Comp ...
From a 2011 Case Play Book that I was able to download:
It does not mention the offense, but it does seem to allow what would have been a charged conference for free based on other pretexts.
From a 2011 Case Play Book that I was able to download:
It does not mention the offense, but it does seem to allow what would have been a charged conference for free based on other pretexts.
- Jun 8, 2016
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I would not argue with Comp on this. He seems to have made it his life’s work. Next up curing cancer..
Perhaps since you are "interpreting" something the rule book does not say in any way shape or form, have no case play or interpretation from NFHS saying anything of the sort you should stop making this particular ruling until you run this up the chain of command and actually get a ruling from NFHS.
