In a mood, I can't take it anymore... and it started with backdoor curve.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Keilani Ricketts did fairly well. Went on to win a WCWS title and play pro-ball. Not too shabby. I think many here would consider that an accomplishment.

For college, mastery of a few pitches is all that is needed. To play at a high level you want to be able to throw a few pitches really well ... really, really well.

A curve-drop is a fine pitch if you can command it.

A curve-rise is a fine pitch if you can command it.

One of Bill’s points was spot on … the importance of mastering pitches.

 

[Rocketech1]

she was dominant in college because of speed. She is the fourth best pitcher on her NPF team because she does not have a rise. Crop/drop/mop....throw it 70+ and you will do great in college.

Compare her to Gasciogne in their college/NPF careers and it tells an interesting story. And who trained Gasciogne? A rise/drop/change advocate.

I could be wrong but I would bet that Keilani's crop wasn't a flaw in her drop ball but instead was an intentional pitch that she perfected because it was very effective as it moves down and in to right handed batters.

As someone mentioned, the lowering of the strike zone from under the arm pits to the sternum a few years ago has taken some of the luster off of the effectiveness of the riseball and the umpires seem to be giving the corners more as strikes. Having some pitches that move left/right may not be such a bad thing.

In the meantime, I will have my DD work on all of her pitches to see which ones become her "go to" pitches. If she achieves 10% of what Ricketts has, I think this pitching thing will have been a success.

 

[JJsqueeze]

JJs, do you believe the curve-drop that Mike White and Rick Pauly teach are flaws?

If a developing pitcher could throw such a pitch more naturally than they could throw a drop without horizontal movement, would you as the instructor remove the horizontal movement from such a pitch?

Your theoretical question has no basis in reality. You obviously have never trained a pitcher to throw with I/R - brush mechanics. If you had then you would know that natural drop curve spin is a low level symptom of poor mechanics/lack of brush and/or late I/R. And long before you worry about any movement you have already corrected it. Then once corrected squaring up a drop is pretty easy as is teaching a crop. Letting a girl with natural crop spin alone is pitching coach malpractice.

But we are talking EFFECTIVENESS of the pitches and the simple truth is that the trade off of sacrificing some pure drop spin to a side component is not worth it. The amount of curve you get on a drop curve is less than the amount of drop you could get if you squared it up. it is not linear. The Magnus force rolls off quickly when not thrown with pure spin so when you tilt that drop a little sideways you might get 10% curve action but you spent 20% drop all action to get it. So the trade off is just not worth it. Better to just throw a clean drop on the corner and let it have a maximum break.

As for the Rick Pauly/Mike White teaching, you would have to post what you claim they are teaching for me to have an opinion. In my interactions with Rick he seems very pragmatic on the drop curve and I think his take on it is that it is both very easy to teach and is a variation of a drop more than a distinct pitch and if given the choice he would rather just see a good drop. But maybe he can clarify directly.

i look forward to you posting some content of Rick and Mike White's teaching on the drop curve now that you have drawn them in and claim to know their approaches.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Rick Pauly is posting here again. Perhaps we can encourage him to comment.

Rick ... please comment on why you teach a curve-rise and curve-drop. Curious why you would call these pitches during games if they are 'crap' pitches.

You also teach a screwball. Please comment on that as well.

 

[riseball]

FFS is a pitching coach, hitting coach, coaches travel ball, coaches HS ball, has caught Mike White, understands all of the teachings of Dr. Alan Nathan, Rick Pauly, Bill Hillhouse and I believe that he was Brian Williams chopper pilot when it was hit with a grenade, and rescued Hillary Clinton from sniper fire in Serbia.

 

[JJsqueeze]

He is Kaiser Sose....or verbal Kent....he is......

The most interesting man on DFP....he doesn't post in threads....threads post in him.

he was banned once....for being too AWESOME

his post count is so big it need scientific notation to keep it legible.

he once taught a hitter and pitcher to throw a crop and hit it AT THE SAME time with prefect mechanics at both ends...

 

[Greenmonsters]

JJs, do you believe the curve-drop that Mike White and Rick Pauly teach are flaws?

If a developing pitcher could throw such a pitch more naturally than they could throw a drop without horizontal movement, would you as the instructor remove the horizontal movement from such a pitch?

I would. Anything between a flat-breaking curve and a vertical breaking drop is easier to hit IMO because the curve drop IMO is the pitch that stays on the same plane as the batter's swing if the batter's initial location read was correct.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Interesting tactic. When in doubt, divert.

Let's see if Rick will comment on why he teaches a curve-rise and curve-drop.

If he has the time, perhaps we can encourage him to comment on why he teaches a screwball.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I would. Anything between a flat-breaking curve and a vertical breaking drop is easier to hit IMO because the curve drop IMO is the pitch that stays on the same plane as the batter's swing if the batter's initial location read was correct.

Bold above ... that is what the horizontal movement is meant to disrupt.

 

[Westwind]

FFS is a pitching coach, hitting coach, coaches travel ball, coaches HS ball, has caught Mike White, understands all of the teachings of Dr. Alan Nathan, Rick Pauly, Bill Hillhouse and I believe that he was Brian Williams chopper pilot when it was hit with a grenade, and rescued Hillary Clinton from sniper fire in Serbia.

And somehow has time to snipe every post made on three forums within 15 minutes.