ASA umpires placement on playing field?

[jinjet95]

Just to be clear, our coach did go to the BU who made the call and asked him if he would confer with his partner and he did so, without the coach's presence. He then reversed his call after the consultation, the PU did not. Based upon Bretman's explanation, and what I've always understood to be the rule, the coach and the umpires involved followed the correct procedure.

What I said about egos applied to some specific umpires we've had in our area who may have gotten defensive about a call. I didn't mean to imply they are all that way. Most of the time the umpire does get it right and there should be no need for an appeal, which is probably why I haven't seen a reversal very often.

 

[BrianMonk]

Perhaps if you wouldn't have started your post with the condescending attitude and just attempted to have a discussion about the subject matter instead of interjecting something that wasn't discussed and then going off on a tangent based on that item and doing so without such an extreme effort to appear like a jerk, your long-winded attempts at explaining things that were not part of the discussion would have merit.

and yes... I misspoke in an effort to shortcut. I wasn't addressing you and was attempting to clarify something in a discussion with another poster and the context between our two posts which had a specific event that occurred to which I addressed.

But don't let that get in your way of twisting things to avoid the real part of the discussion.

No, you want to argue. I don't. I wanted a discussion and no one is going to get anything out of this discourse.

I'm done.

WOW! - JD - nothing wrong with it but you have a lot to learn regarding fastpitch softball.

BretMan is one of the best and most helpful fastpitch posters you'll find on the internet, especially when it comes to rule explanation/clarification. He'll give you the rhyme and reason behind why things are the way the are. I actually seek out his explanations frequently within threads because he's very good and what he does. MTR is good too, just not quite as accommodating to the newbies

Go through some old threads and read them, you'll get a lot out of it.

 

[Ajaywill]

....One way I see this abused is when coaches want a second opinion on any call they don't like. Just because it was a close play and you don't like the outcome is no reason for the umpires to be huddling up. There should be some concrete reamson why you think that the umpire might have missed it (again, as outlined above, pulled foot, etc.)....

I would like to take this part of Bret's post and ask every coach to read it...several times, if necessary.....

 

[BretMan]

Perhaps if you wouldn't have started your post with the condescending attitude...

I'm kind of scratching my head how asking if the folks reading and posting on a thread about umpires changing calls at first base are familiar with the guidelines already on the books is being "condescending"?

Several of the comments posted- including your own- indicated to me that some might not be familiar with the process. Before you start making proposals on how the process can be changed, wouldn't you like to have an understanding of what the current process actually is and why it is that way? How can you say that "this way would be better" if you don't understand the way things are presently supposed to be done?

..(if you would have) attempted to have a discussion about the subject matter instead of interjecting something that wasn't discussed and then going off on a tangent based on that item and doing so without such an extreme effort to appear like a jerk...

No, no extreme effort. It's really quite effortless on my part...

But way to go with the mature coversation technique of "name calling".

I wasn't addressing you and was attempting to clarify something in a discussion with another poster and the context between our two posts which had a specific event that occurred to which I addressed.

If you post something on a public discussion board, you best be ready to accept public comments. If you want a private conversation, use the private messaging system.

But don't let that get in your way of twisting things to avoid the real part of the discussion.

No, you want to argue. I don't. I wanted a discussion and no one is going to get anything out of this discourse.

I'm not sure exactly how I'm "twisting" things. By quoting the exact words as you posted them and assuming that you meant what you said?

 

[Country Boy]

Bretman,
You are without doubt, an expert. I enjoy reading what you post. More often than not, I learn something. Usually that I was wrong. But you're good. And just like coaches, some umpires aren't.

Last week, a BU told my HS SS that a swipe tag was not allowed. He said that it was not a valid way to apply a tag in FP SB. He was every bit as adamant that he was right as you are in outlining the acceptable positioning of the umpires and what call they are responsible for. He immediately blew up and refused to ask for help. I never raised my voice. I didn't yell from the dugout. I approached him quietly and asked what his call was and what he saw. His response is, in my sole opinion, somewhat typical of an ego driven, small town umpire. He was the only one that raised his voice. He refused to listen. He refused to ask for help. He essentially threw me off the diamond for daring to question his call.

That's not your fault. But it speaks to why some of us question whether the current rules can't be improved. There was no way that BU was looking for any help. The PU gave me a sad look, but he has to work with the BU routinely, so he is not going to insert himself in what appeared to be an obvious, huge mistake.

None of us are perfect. I'm wrong for even sticking my nose into this. Coaches are fair game on this forum, as we should be. Most decisions we make are questioned. Please keep in mind that a percentage of umpires are not intimately familiar with the rules as they are now. So merely quoting the rules doesn't always solve my problems. Sometimes I know them better than the umpires. And that's sad because I don't know anything. I'm a Daddy Ball coach.

 

[dschreib]

I'll throw my two cents in. First off, I agree that the BU is in the best position in "C", as those of you who know what you're doing call it. I'd rather have the BU there to make a call at third on a steal, pickoff, etc, than have the PU trying to look through a catcher, batter, and maybe 3B...all after making the call on the pitch. As has been stated, there are procedures to follow for having an umpire who made the initial call overturn it. This isn't basketball, where a whistle has probably blown, play has stopped, and the officials can discuss who knocked the ball out-of-bounds. Most of the time, we need an umpire to make a call immediately. We simply don't have time for them to look to another ump for help.
With that said, as an independent third party, I can maybe see where this statement--"Are any of you aware of the standard operating procedure for umpires to reverse a call?"--can come across as "Do any of you know what you're talking about?" I haven't been around long enough to know BretMan from Adam, and I tend to believe that most people aren't condescending. At the same time, I'd venture to guess that if it would have started with "There is a standard operating procedure in place for umpires to reverse a call", the thread might have proceeded differently. Then again, maybe not. Like I said, just my two cents.