12U pitchers throwing 58-60 mph

[Vertigo]

No it only means they are better than you at throwing the ball fast. I am not sure how you construed my post to mean that all the attention is being put on speed alone. Where my DD takes lessons accuracy is emphasized during lessons a lot more than speed. It just so happens that speed is a lot easier to measure and track over time.

Never said all the attention, at lessons, is put on speed alone at your dd’s facility. Just said that it seems that PC‘s who post top speeds in their facilities and on SM use it as the main selling point. Nothing wrong with it, but it’s also not fully transparent. It also does not mean that the girl who throws harder is “more skilled” than the pitcher who does not throw as hard.

For me, the selling point for choosing our PC years ago was proven track record. Girls who excelled in HS and at the collegiate level proven by the accolades they received through pitching in games. I never knew exactly how hard those girls threw - or, I should say, it wasn’t exposed by their PC.

I honestly don’t care either way about the list of names and their speeds. It just doesn’t sell the PC or facility for me, specifically.

ETA: My primary example being one of the facilities mentioned on this board notorious for posting names/top pitch speeds has a girl posted on there, hitting mid-60’s in HS, who has never pitched an inning at all in her past few seasons in college. So really, no proven “pitching” track record demonstrated other than a posted top speed obtained at the facility.

 

[radness]

Never said all the attention, at lessons, is put on speed alone at your dd’s facility. Just said that it seems that PC‘s who post top speeds in their facilities and on SM use it as the main selling point. Nothing wrong with it, but it’s also not fully transparent. It also does not mean that the girl who throws harder is “more skilled” than the pitcher who does not throw as hard.

For me, the selling point for choosing our PC years ago was proven track record. Girls who excelled in HS and at the collegiate level proven by the accolades they received through pitching in games. I never knew exactly how hard those girls threw - or, I should say, it wasn’t exposed by their PC.

I honestly don’t care either way about the list of names and their speeds. It just doesn’t sell the PC or facility for me, specifically.

ETA: My primary example being one of the facilities mentioned on this board notorious for posting names/top pitch speeds has a girl posted on there, hitting mid-60’s in HS, who has never pitched an inning at all in her past few seasons in college. So really, no proven “pitching” track record demonstrated other than a posted top speed obtained at the facility.

Understand you're not placing blame but just as a perspective to add to the not fully transparent comment.

Hmmm Don't think it's to blame the pitching instructor for posting pitching speeds because some people reading/looking do not realize there's more involved in pitching than just speed.

Perhaps if we have to be so sensitive to transparency about things nowadays, *everybody would need to post a disclaimer saying/ explaining the results of what people are posting. Whether that's pitching or hitting or anything else...
Example
Disclaimer this _______ has taken
X amount of time
includes Y amount of details
and Z all the things that led to the productivity we're posting...

No thankyou to the disclaimer.
Simply cannot point out every nuance and detail for people.

Stats are stats, most of the time we don't get to know how or where the stats were accumulated. Like, daughter hit .600 But we have no idea their schedule or Talent level, or how much they train weekly or how long they've been trying the same thing over the course of years Etc

 

[Vertigo]

Understand you're not placing blame but just as a perspective to add to the not fully transparent comment.

Hmmm Don't think it's to blame the pitching instructor for posting pitching speeds because some people reading/looking do not realize there's more involved in pitching than just speed.

Perhaps if we have to be so sensitive to transparency about things nowadays, *everybody would need to post a disclaimer saying/ explaining the results of what people are posting. Whether that's pitching or hitting or anything else...
Example
Disclaimer this _______ has taken
X amount of time
includes Y amount of details
and Z all the things that led to the productivity we're posting...

No thankyou to the disclaimer.
Simply cannot point out every nuance and detail for people.

Stats are stats, most of the time we don't get to know how or where the stats were accumulated. Like, daughter hit .600 But we have no idea their schedule or Talent level, or how much they train weekly or how long they've been trying the same thing over the course of years Etc

Totally get what you’re saying RAD and it makes sense. I just think if the PC would post actual accolades vs one single measurement it might actually market their product much better. But I also get that speed is king, and it is what sells the most to parents at this point in time.

 

[lostcreek1]

The ole Velocity vs Accuracy debate...a DFP favorite. Greg Maddux and Cat Osterman will be making appearances soon.

Another trigger..I think I need to delete my account (which actually isn't possible..I have checked..multiple times...)

Pitching speed and Exit Velocity, a love hate relationship for both on here.

 

[wheresmycar]

I would like to seriously ask a question. I wonder what happens to all of these girls throwing at these speeds. I know game speeds are different from just uncorking one in the practice lane.
I get to go to a lot of college games. We have been going to VT games since dd started playing softball. I usually sit behind home plate. VT always has girls using the radar on every pitch and charting pitch speed and location. I can't help but look over their shoulder. The fastest speed I saw was Carrie Eberle at 69 mph. She typically threw 67-68 mph on her fastest pitches. Rochard topped out at 68 mph but I didn't get too many games this year because of watching dd. Often but not always, the opposing team would clock their pitchers. Megan Goode with JMU got to 71 with 1 pitch and was consistently 69-70. Many really good P5 pitchers are 64-65mph
DD's d3 team has a pitcher's dad who clocks all the pitchers both on our team and the opposing team. They played a very good schedule against many of the best pitchers in d3. A pitcher throwing 63-64 at the d3 level is an unicorn. Most of the really good pitchers are throwing 60-61 mph.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

When they stop growing, the easy speed increases end. So a 2nd year 12u throwing 60, may graduate high school throwing 63.

 

[PharmerBrown]

In our 12U full season last year, we saw many pitchers 50-55 with good accuracy, spin and change of pace. Pretty much every game other than when we saw someone pitching faster. Probably 90% of games. We won most all of these games.

10% of the time we saw someone in the high 50s, and these won about half of these games. And they were usually close games.

We were fortunate to have 3 pitchers who average 54-58 and our pitching wins a lot of games. And our defense is pretty amazing (if I must say so myself). Stud catchers, SS and OFs especially, but all positions solid.

So I guess I'm saying the pitchers I see either:
1) Should focus more on speed
2) Did a great job learning accuracy
3) Just haven't grown enough to be fast but might be soon
4) All of the above

Now when I've watched B level tourneys, which is often, I do see wild pitchers. Usually at lower speeds (50-55). And perhaps that makes sense. Pitchers are hard to find and every one gets multiple offers from other teams each season. So the ones who are the most accurate and have speed make their way to the best A-level teams.

If 50-55 is lower speed at 12u, we don't have many fast pitchers in our state. Low speed for 12u B-level travel ball is 38-42 IMHO.

 

[NJZoo]

Then why post the speeds when accuracy is clearly more important? Why not post, "Jane hit her tunnel 8 out of 10 times, and her spots 6 out of 10?" I'll tell you why. Speed is A) easier to quantify. B) speed is sexier.

I have no issues with speed. I know my daughter's personal training and in-game speed, and she throws harder than most girls her age. I don't understand the need to put names on a board with speeds. We know a girl who throws 67 in lessons and 70 on a run-through but struggles to throw strikes in games. Oddly enough, her trainers always post about her speed, but they never mention that she struggles when it counts.

To each his peach, I suppose.

In a perfect world you'd be right, of course. But, a 12U girl who can throw 65mph is going to get noticed by colleges. A 12U girl who throws 95% strikes at 46mph isn't. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

We're also talking at the margins. A 14U girl who throws 68mph and can't throw strikes isn't going to be pitching for very long unless she can gain command. Just like a 14U girl who throws 44mph and can paint the corners won't be unless she can gain velocity.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

In a perfect world you'd be right, of course. But, a 12U girl who can throw 65mph is going to get noticed by colleges. A 12U girl who throws 95% strikes at 46mph isn't. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

We're also talking at the margins. A 14U girl who throws 68mph and can't throw strikes isn't going to be pitching for very long unless she can gain command. Just like a 14U girl who throws 44mph and can paint the corners won't be unless she can gain velocity.

My daughter's college AC says if a girl can't throw strikes by second year 14U, she'll never throw strikes enough to pitch in college. I wonder if there's any truth to that?

 

[lostcreek1]

My daughter's college AC says if a girl can't throw strikes by second year 14U, she'll never throw strikes enough to pitch in college. I wonder if there's any truth to that?

Depends on when she starts pitching. I know a girl that didn’t start playing softball until freshman year of HS, she is going to play college ball as a pitcher.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

Depends on when she starts pitching. I know a girl that didn’t start playing softball until freshman year of HS, she is going to play college ball as a pitcher.

He is talking about girls doing it a long time.