Velocity vs accuracy

[_MIA_]

I will say when giving statistics like that, some idea of the population they were taken from should be given.

 

[Vertigo]

I’d take it a step further as I’m curious to know what are the average and rare/above average speeds based on? A handful of pitches in a game that might be a fastball? Averages obtained in-game vs pitching on turf with no batter? Are the speeds the average of full games? There are so many variables here that these charts don’t mention, so it’s difficult to say what is the norm across the board. My dd can typically pitch about 2 mph faster on turf than on dirt. Probably even slower in some of the sand traps she’s encountered in the NE.

 

[_MIA_]

I’d take it a step further as I’m curious to know what are the average and rare/above average speeds based on? A handful of pitches in a game that might be a fastball? Averages obtained in-game vs pitching on turf with no batter? Are the speeds the average of full games? There are so many variables here that these charts don’t mention, so it’s difficult to say what is the norm across the board. My dd can typically pitch about 2 mph faster on turf than on dirt. Probably even slower in some of the sand traps she’s encountered in the NE.

Yeah, in other words, I wouldn’t worry too much about the numbers if I was a pitcher’s parent…keep getting better.

 

[Vertigo]

The College+ speeds mentioned - are those D1 only?

 

[LEsoftballdad]

So, here's where I think the averages can get skewed, especially when you're in an area watching A ball all the time. Where I live, there are no A-ball tournaments. They are mostly B, with a few C teams sprinkled in. Anyone of any talent who wants to face tougher competition has to travel off LI or play for a team not on LI. Even in most regional tournaments, the average team in the showcases are B+ level teams. It is rare to see a true A team in the NE that plays in the NE with regularity.

Last summer, my older daughter's team played in NE Finest, so we decided to do the recruiting camp the day before. Since she is a catcher, she got to work with many pitchers. There were 68 pitchers at the camp, ranging from grades 9-12. Of all the pitchers at the camp, five hit 60, with the highest hitting 63. NE Finest attracts 100s of teams from all over the east coast and even a few from other areas of the country. Of course, not every pitcher at the tournament was at the camp, but this was a large sample size still in the recruiting process.

Also, less than 5% of all HS players continue playing in college. That suggests a lot of lower-speed pitchers will bring down the average speed because they far outnumber the unicorns who live above 62. We probably have five girls on LI who cruise north of 60. Granted, we are not a softball hotbed, so take from that what you will, but there is a lot of 52-57 around here. So I would venture a guess and say of the seven teams in our HS league this year, we had two pitchers cruise above 60, one who could dial it up to 60 rarely, one at 55, one at 50, one at 42, and one who threw the ball over the backstop against us on more than one occasion and never topped 35.

 

[daywalkerdad]

This is not consistent with what I've seen while using both the Rapsodo and the Pocket Radar set up behind the catcher. Small sample size, of course, but we were seeing the same #s or 1 (and sometimes 2) MPH differences. I am aware that others have said the same as you. Just reporting my experience

That is interesting. I was just going off mlb adjusting for stat cast or whatever taking it out of the hand. It will be velocity squared. So 40 mph will have less than half 60

 

[Vertigo]

So, here's where I think the averages can get skewed, especially when you're in an area watching A ball all the time. Where I live, there are no A-ball tournaments. They are mostly B, with a few C teams sprinkled in. Anyone of any talent who wants to face tougher competition has to travel off LI or play for a team not on LI. Even in most regional tournaments, the average team in the showcases are B+ level teams. It is rare to see a true A team in the NE that plays in the NE with regularity.

Last summer, my older daughter's team played in NE Finest, so we decided to do the recruiting camp the day before. Since she is a catcher, she got to work with many pitchers. There were 38 pitchers at the camp, ranging from grades 9-12. Of all the pitchers at the camp, five hit 60, with the highest hitting 63. NE Finest attracts 100s of teams from all over the east coast and even a few from other areas of the country. Of course, not every pitcher at the tournament was at the camp, but this was a large sample size still in the recruiting process.

Also, less than 5% of all HS players continue playing in college. That suggests a lot of lower-speed pitchers will bring down the average speed because they far outnumber the unicorns who live above 62. We probably have five girls on LI who cruise north of 60. Granted, we are not a softball hotbed, so take from that what you will, but there is a lot of 52-57 around here. So I would venture a guess and say of the seven teams in our HS league this year, we had two pitchers cruise above 60, one who could dial it up to 60 rarely, one at 55, one at 50, one at 42, and one who threw the ball over the backstop against us on more than one occasion and never topped 35.

Yep. Same at Pennsbury when my dd was there in 2018. They also didn’t care if the pitch was a strike or not. Saw several pitches go in the dirt or over the catchers’ heads that were clocked and counted. About 10 hit 60+ and for most it was one of two FB that hit it. More variables to consider.

 

[Rick M]

Those low numbers may be only taken from rec ball, middle school and high school but do not think they are reflective of average for at least half of travel ball. (Maybe more)
And even with that there are much higher numbers that are documented that those low numbers seem to be tanked..

Again, the chances that a Rec ball or school ball-only pitcher is paying upwards of $100 per hour to get a Rapsodo readout is virtually zero. You have to be a serious player, or working with a serious coach, to even know what a Rapsodo is. That chart almost certainly reflects the top 70% or so of softball players.

Further, to answer Vertigo’s question, the Rapsodo is a precision machine that uses high-speed cameras and a computer to measure speed and spin. That can only happen indoors, likely on turf — ideal conditions. Another factor that skews the numbers higher, not lower.

Also to say those super low numbers are considered rare comes from some person that is not actually watching all of travel ball because they would not have considered it rare when it is very common to throw 65 mph.

It’s not from ‘some person,’ it’s literally data aggregated from hundreds of Rapsodo machines across the country. The chart you posted lists no sources.

I love ya RAD, you bring great energy and wisdom to this site, but you’ve got a blind spot here. You’ve been around elite softball players for so long that you’ve lost sight of the fact that there are tens of thousands of softball pitchers who will never break 60 mph.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LW23]

We use Rapsodo to help us understand DD's spin efficiency. When we use it speed is rarely one of our main concerns. There are times when we just roll through her pitches to get a snapshot of overall performance. We used the pocket radar video app this year with the speed display and really liked that tool. I have been on both sides of this coin, and RAD is correct about 65 being normal at some of the national events. Most of the teams had at least one pitcher that cruised around 65 in 18U. The fastest I saw was 71 from a 22 grad in Indy(Alliance Championships). Several pitchers were throwing between 57-62 as well. At any level accuracy and speed matter, but good mechanics make a big difference in obtaining both.

 

[Vertigo]

Again, the chances that a Rec ball or school ball-only pitcher is paying upwards of $100 per hour to get a Rapsodo readout is virtually zero. You have to be a serious player, or working with a serious coach, to even know what a Rapsodo is. That chart almost certainly reflects the top 70% or so of softball players.

Further, to answer Vertigo’s question, the Rapsodo is a precision machine that uses high-speed cameras and a computer to measure speed and spin. That can only happen indoors, likely on turf — ideal conditions. Another factor that skews the numbers higher, not lower.




It’s not from ‘some person,’ it’s literally data aggregated from hundreds of Rapsodo machines across the country. The chart you posted lists no sources.

I love ya RAD, you bring great energy and wisdom to this site, but you’ve got a blind spot here. You’ve been around elite softball players for so long that you’ve lost sight of the fact that there are tens of thousands of softball pitchers who will never break 60 mph.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, my ds’ pitching coach uses one at the local baseball facility where he gives lessons. It is an amazing tool - very expensive. The nice thing is he forwards all of the data to DH so he can keep track of his progress.