Scoring bunt that stays fair and bunt to get runner home

[CoachJD]

Can you give a link to supporting documentation for these?

I believe that #2 in your list is still a Sac Fly w/Error.

#5, if the hitter hits to where they should be out, but the defense spends too much time looking back a runner, I think you still have FC there.

Got everything from OBR.

#2 is not an error because of the fielder's choice force out. This is no different than if there had been no SF situation. For example, runner on first. Batter hits a fly ball to the outfield. Fielder drops the ball, picks it up, gets the force at second. That's also a fielder's choice, no error.

#5 - In NCAA, yes, but in OBR, no. OBR requires making a play.

From OBR:

Definition of fielder's choice (which covers #5)


The section on Base Hits also covers #5:




This covers #2:

 

[Rolling Hard]

Ok not to hijack thread but I have a couple questions on scoring. Both involve poor base running, IMO.

Runner on 1st, line drive single to CF and (poor read) runner is forced out at 2nd?

Runner on 2nd, batter hits one hop rocket off the diving 3rd baseman's glove (would be ruled a hit) ball bounces directly to SS who throws out the runner attempting to advance to 3rd.

 

[CoachJD]

Ok not to hijack thread but I have a couple questions on scoring. Both involve poor base running, IMO.

Runner on 1st, line drive single to CF and (poor read) runner is forced out at 2nd?

Runner on 2nd, batter hits one hop rocket off the diving 3rd baseman's glove (would be ruled a hit) ball bounces directly to SS who throws out the runner attempting to advance to 3rd.

#1 - Fielder's Choice. It's not a single until all the runners have reached the next base safely. From a scoring standpoint, there's no difference between a routine grounder and a blast to the gap.

#2 - 5-6-5 Fielder's Choice, but in this case, it's a FC only if the batter-runner could've been thrown out by the SS. So maybe you'd have to be there, but if it's a rocket that caroms directly to the SS, I think it's at least plausible that the batter-runner could be put out at first. A simple test here (and yes, some judgment/subjectivity is required): If the runner on second didn't exist, would the batter have been safe at first?

 

[Sweet Lou]

I don't believe you can charge an error if they go on to record an out. I could be wrong and there could be so strange things that could lead to an error but dropping the pop up and forcing a runner out is not ruled an error in any scoring system I'm aware of.

 

[Agcy]

#1 - Fielder's Choice. It's not a single until all the runners have reached the next base safely. From a scoring standpoint, there's no difference between a routine grounder and a blast to the gap.

#2 - 5-6-5 Fielder's Choice, but in this case, it's a FC only if the batter-runner could've been thrown out by the SS. So maybe you'd have to be there, but if it's a rocket that caroms directly to the SS, I think it's at least plausible that the batter-runner could be put out at first. A simple test here (and yes, some judgment/subjectivity is required): If the runner on second didn't exist, would the batter have been safe at first?

I respectfully disagree on#2. There are a few examples of hitting the ball where a runner (especially fast) would have been safe, but a leading runner is out. In those situations, I would consider it a fielders choice.
- diving stop by 2nd or SS flipped to second base
- pop fly drops just out of reach of 2nd - runner at first is half way watching for the catch, but is thrown out at 2.

 

[Sweet Lou]

#2 - 5-6-5 Fielder's Choice, but in this case, it's a FC only if the batter-runner could've been thrown out by the SS. So maybe you'd have to be there, but if it's a rocket that caroms directly to the SS, I think it's at least plausible that the batter-runner could be put out at first. A simple test here (and yes, some judgment/subjectivity is required): If the runner on second didn't exist, would the batter have been safe at first?

What does this mean? If the lead runner is put out and the batter reaches first it's always a fielders choice.

Or are you saying that the lead runner is safe and you might credit either a FC or 1B depending on whether or not there was a play on batted runner at first?

 

[canyonjoe]

Ok not to hijack thread but I have a couple questions on scoring. Both involve poor base running, IMO.

Runner on 1st, line drive single to CF and (poor read) runner is forced out at 2nd?

Runner on 2nd, batter hits one hop rocket off the diving 3rd baseman's glove (would be ruled a hit) ball bounces directly to SS who throws out the runner attempting to advance to 3rd.

1st one is definitely a FC every time.
2nd one is an FC if you think batter could be thrown out. You have to be there to determine that. had it been 1st and 2nd it's always a FC.

 

[CoachJD]

I respectfully disagree on#2. There are a few examples of hitting the ball where a runner (especially fast) would have been safe, but a leading runner is out. In those situations, I would consider it a fielders choice.
- diving stop by 2nd or SS flipped to second base
- pop fly drops just out of reach of 2nd - runner at first is half way watching for the catch, but is thrown out at 2.

You're talking the difference between a force out and a tag play. A force out is always a fielder's choice/no hit.

A tag play requires a scorer's judgment.

 

[CoachJD]

What does this mean? If the lead runner is put out and the batter reaches first it's always a fielders choice.

Or are you saying that the lead runner is safe and you might credit either a FC or 1B depending on whether or not there was a play on batted runner at first?

In that example, I think it could be different things based on the actual play. Because it's not a force out, it's not automatically a fielder's choice. Since you have the weird instance of a deflected ball, I think you'd have to be there to know how to call it.

I could see it being a fielder's choice, but I could also see it being a hit.

Another way to look at it: Was the runner being thrown out part of the initial play or was it a secondary play after the batter hit a single?

Let's combine Agcy's two examples into a single play: Runner on second, line shot hit to the outfield. The runner, for whatever reason, hesitates and ends up getting thrown out at third. In this case, that's a hit and the runner is thrown out trying to advance. Agcy's #2 might be like that.

Oh, also, in that particular scenario, I don't think the runner being safe or out at third would factor into my determination of single or FC. It's all dependent on if I thought the batter-runner had the play beaten.