Piggyback question - How do you determine if your DD is in the top 9??

[quincy]

2 maybe strange situations.

HC tried to put DD pitching against the top of the other Teams order. She would pitch 1st inning, then come back in.

We had a really good pitcher in our league, really good. She pitched, DD pitched. She stuck us out in 9 pitches 1 inning.

Batters 0, pitcher 3 stikeouts. If the ump could see the ball one of them should have been a ball. ☺

 

[Snotbubbles]

Strength of opponent can really throw stats out of whack.

Example: Our team in a tournament last weekend played an awful team, an average team and quite possibly the best team in our age bracket in the state. Should the pitcher who gave up 4 runs against the awful team count for more than the pitcher who gave up 8 runs against the best team?

I mean stats are neat and all, but they don't really paint a good picture without context.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Is it hard for coaches to be objective as well though? That is what my husband thinks. He feels that the coach is coaching from her heart and not her head. Of course I tell him that if he doesn't like it he should coach..... not a good idea for anyone of course and since he travels it would be impossible.

He is correct that it is hard for coaches to be objective. But that doesn’t change when using statistics. You still have to make a subjective judgment about the value of each and every statistic. And if you are using statistics alone to make the lineup, then you have made the subjective judgment that numbers trump everything else. You can't escape subjectivity.

He thinks that defensive errors and fielding % should be determined when placing the girls in their positions - that is his main issue - the defensive side of the game for the team.

I’d rather have him in the stands than the dugout then.

I love stats, especially hitting stats, but I don’t think I've ever thought twice about a player's fielding percentage. I don’t know where to start in expressing the shortcomings of that statistic.

 

[grcsftbll]

FP seems like a useless stat to me, or near to it. When a girl, let's say, stands in the outfield and never moves towards a ball the entire game, her FP is 1000. But she didn't actually do anything except stand there. Meanwhile you might have an aggressive fielder that makes some really amazing plays, but has a lower FP because of bobbling one of the 80 balls she stopped over the weekend.

 

[canyonjoe]

For arguments sake to the OP, what stat would you DH suggest they use to be objective? Some like OPS but that doesn't factor in stolen bases. Others like OBP or BA or even the vague QAB percentage . On defense is it just FP? Once you get the stat you want to use, what timeframe? Is it all season (which causes you to lag the trend), is it this weekend only or the last 3.

Honestly I have great admiration for HC's out there who have to make these decisions. I've never met a coach that likes to sit kids. What I do like are the ones who find roles for the ones sitting so they get in the game. I don't like ones who lie about the roster size though.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Not all stats are equal as others have pointed out. Using FIP for pitching and wOBA for hitting is a good place to start.

Here is the bottom line with coaching...someone has to do it. In other words if you take 12 girls and have 5 different head coaches they would have 5 different hitting and fielding lineups. Coaches value players differently. There is no right or wrong you just hope the coaches are informed (using stats).

The beauty of travel softball is that if your sensibilities don't match the coaches you can always switch teams.

 

[JAD]

So - with that said - my husband believes that coaching decisions should be made solely based on stats. He thinks a coach should be looking at mainly the stats to determine playing time. Second to stats is attitude and hustle. He hates when I bring up that I think the coach is trying to develop certain players into a position based on the potential the coach sees. It drives him batty. He says that since dd's team plays league that would be the development time - but when it is tournament time the best 9 (based on stats) should be on the field and the others with lower stats should be the one's that sit/sub more.

Stats are great for MLB where they play 162 games and have professional scorekeepers. For TB the sample size is usually too small to make significant decisions based on it. Also, if a batter rips a line drive that just about kills F5, but she catches it in self defense, while another batter has a swinging bunt that catches the defense off guard, who do you want at the plate with the game on the line and bases loaded? Stats can be a component of the decision making process, but to rely solely on stats would be a mistake.

 

[JAD]

The best 9 batters or the best 9 fielders? Because the two are not always the same.

On DD's HS team the best 9 fielders are the starters. Of these I'd say 7 of them are in the top 9 for batting. But honestly, there is so much more than straight stats that goes into those decisions.

Coaches are often faced with the dilemma of defensive skills vs. offensive firepower. The old saying "knock the cover off the ball and the coach will find a place for you to play" is true, even at the top D1 programs in the country...

 

[JAD]

Is it hard for coaches to be objective as well though? That is what my husband thinks. He feels that the coach is coaching from her heart and not her head. Of course I tell him that if he doesn't like it he should coach..... not a good idea for anyone of course and since he travels it would be impossible.

He thinks that defensive errors and fielding % should be determined when placing the girls in their positions - that is his main issue - the defensive side of the game for the team.

The coach does a good job with batting based on stats. She is also a hitting coach though so that is expected. It does tend to bother dh that there are a couple of girls with batting averages of .200 or below that are still hitting since we hit roster - is that the baseball in him? or is he just a hard rear?

People like your husband are the reason a lot of coaches prohibit parents from having access to all of the player stats on Game Changer....please make your husband watch this video and pay particular attention @ 26 seconds.

 

[marriard]

"Is your DD in the top 9" is pretty straightforward....

If your daughter starts all but one game in pool games and is in the batting lineup/starts in the field in bracket games then she is in the top 9.

WHY she is in the top 9 might be a different story. 'Deserves to be in the top 9' may also be a different story - so many different factors come into it - but if she is doing the above, then she is...

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Stats opinion:
As JAD said - sample size and differing levels of play means stats have limited usefulness in determining lineups for games. They are one consideration, but no way are they overriding anything.

Our third pitcher currently has the best ERA on our team - but she only pitches against weak competition. Every time she she steps up a level it hasn't gone well - but we will keep trying....
One of our hitters is hitting .500 right now... but it is .900 or so against lower pitching and .100 against any sort of real speed. She just can't get around on the better pitchers. We have another also player hitting .500 but she is .600 against the weaker pitching and .400 against the best pitchers - I know who bats higher on elimination day.

And so on...