Flex/DP rule

[CoachKevin]

Had an interesting thing happen. ASA Regional Qualifer, HC replaces the Flex with the DP and tells the umpire just a defensive change. I whisper that he cannot do that and it's a substitution. The umpire never pulled out line up and said ok. After the game, HC asks the UIC about the situation, he states that he doesn't care which 10 play where.

Am I getting this wrong? I always thought the Flex had to play Defense, and if replaced by the DP it was a full sub.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

If the DP plays defense for the Flex, the Flex has left the game. It takes a re-entry to get her back in.

 

[CoachKevin]

That is what I thought. Thanks

 

[Ajaywill]

Coach Kevin...the situation you are describing is not a substitution by the definition of a substitution, but it looks like one.

Even though some on this and other boards prefer not to use the word "substitution" when referring to the FLEX/DP lineup moves, I try to explain it as a "half-substitution". In other words only one of the players leaves the game and needs to use a re-entry to get back in whereas the other player is always in the game and does not leave it.

 

[CoachKevin]

I get that, the flex had left the game, thus bringing the lineup down to 9. I was just kind of schocked when the UIC said he didn't care where the 10 played, and kind of made me look like I didn't know what I was talking about. It really didn't matter in the game since the umpire didn't even check the lineup card, just said OK.

 

[FPump]

I get that, the flex had left the game, thus bringing the lineup down to 9. I was just kind of schocked when the UIC said he didn't care where the 10 played, and kind of made me look like I didn't know what I was talking about. It really didn't matter in the game since the umpire didn't even check the lineup card, just said OK.

And this occurred in an ASA Regional Qualifier? There is no excuse for an umpire working at that level to not have total knowledge and recall of the ASA rule regarding a team's use of the DP/Flex option.

 

[FPump]

Coach Kevin...the situation you are describing is not a substitution by the definition of a substitution, but it looks like one.

Even though some on this and other boards prefer not to use the word "substitution" when referring to the FLEX/DP lineup moves, I try to explain it as a "half-substitution". In other words only one of the players leaves the game and needs to use a re-entry to get back in whereas the other player is always in the game and does not leave it.

The rule book uses the word "replaced." The DP can "replace" the Flex, the Flex can "replace" the DP. Phrases like 'half-substitution' and 'temporary DP' IMO just muddy the waters when explaining the rule to a coach who has a question regarding the DP/Flex rule.

 

[CoachKevin]

And this occurred in an ASA Regional Qualifier? There is no excuse for an umpire working at that level to not have total knowledge and recall of the ASA rule regarding a team's use of the DP/Flex option.

That was my thought too. But on the other hand the other team also didn't say anything about it... so all is good

 

[CoachGSJ]

There is no substitution in this situation. You have 10 players listed in your line-up and any 9 of those can play any defensive position. If you read the description of the DP, they can play defense for any player at any time with no substitution needed or reported. The only time there is an actual substitution is when on offense you want to put your flex in for your DP...that's when your line-up drops to 9 and thus you no longer have a DP.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

There is no substitution in this situation. You have 10 players listed in your line-up and any 9 of those can play any defensive position. If you read the description of the DP, they can play defense for any player at any time with no substitution needed or reported. The only time there is an actual substitution is when on offense you want to put your flex in for your DP...that's when your line-up drops to 9 and thus you no longer have a DP.

Down the rabbit hole we go.

The OP was asking about a situation where the coach had the DP play defense for the Flex. The correct answer is that the Flex has left the game. It will take a re-entry or an available substitute to put the Flex back into the game. The OP reports that the umpire and the tournament UIC didn't understand the rule.

As to the DP and Flex both being active, yes, there are ten players in the game. The Flex must play defense. Any eight of the other nine make up the rest of the defense. That means the DP can play defense at the same time as the Flex.

As you suggest, placing the Flex on offense for the DP must be reported. The DP playing defense for the Flex must also be reported. There are specific penalties for failing to report if the offended team protests at the correct time.