Earning circle time?

[undergroundga]

Thats another issue, in Rec when a kid is playing above her age. Sometimes she has to take a back seat so the older kids can develop in order to be ready when they are aged up. It may not seem fair, but when your kid has 3 years to develop, and the other kids have 1 sometimes the right thing is to give those older kids a chance, even if they may not be better. As they get older and move on to travel and HS ball, then the best one should be pitching. But in the younger ages, and in Rec it should ba about developing kids and sometimes that means someone elses kid gets developed first.

You make a very good point. After chewing this over a couple hours I came to realize you are right. I have been so focused on them nor giving my dd a chance that I didn't realize how selfish I was being.My dd does have more time to develop and those girls are the vets. They deserve to be the ones that are in there and need to be preparing to move up next spring. So thank you for opening my eyes.
But Dd did something today to make me proud. On the way to her game she said she was gonna go to her coach and ask her coach to give her a shot. So when we got to the game she put her gear in the dugout and walked over to talk to her coach. I was setting up our box seats and glanced out of the corner of my eye to see my 8 yr old dd talking to her coach. When they were done she walked up to me smiling and said that she explained to her coach how she practiced 3 times week and took lessons. She said she asked her coach very politely to please give her a chance. HC told her she would let her tryout at the next practice to see what she had. Said there would be games comeing up where one of the pitchers would be gone.
I am so proud that my 8 yoa dd has enough maturity to aproach her coach in a poliite, respectful manner and request a shot, Not have her dad do it or demand it. I think that it also shows a level of confidence in her own ability. Whether she ever pitches for this team or not that was worth the $40 we paid for her to play.

 

[KevinC]

He also offered to let the girl come to his heated pole barn when he had the pitchers and catchers from his team working out in winter.

When I saw heated pole barn I almost spit out my beer.

Back on topic in rec league I think it changes as the players get older: 10U and younger anyone who wants to pitch should get a shot in a game. The ones that are really working at it should get the most time. At 12U and older I think the pitchers who are "serious" about it (i.e., taking lessons, etc.) should get the time in the circle .

Fortunately my DD is just a catcher.

 

[howellhandmade]

When I saw heated pole barn I almost spit out my beer.

Back on topic in rec league I think it changes as the players get older: 10U and younger anyone who wants to pitch should get a shot in a game. The ones that are really working at it should get the most time. At 12U and older I think the pitchers who are "serious" about it (i.e., taking lessons, etc.) should get the time in the circle .

Fortunately my DD is just a catcher.

Heh, you get a bit of cold weather inside the beltway. But nothing like Michigan. I wish *I* had a heated pole barn.

Whatever the coach does with circle time, somebody will be mad. In the long run, an 8yo starting to pitch is in a stronger position than a 10yo just starting to pitch, so keep practicing.

 

[Lozza]

Different programs are trying to achieve different goals. There are coaches who want their DDs to get plenty of innings, so that's one of their primary reasons for coaching. I know that you are a coach, but if you were also a parent, it is possible you would understand more about what drives that dynamic. There's nothing at all wrong with someone coaching a team to ensure their DD gets circle time.

I know I've said this to you before, but you are verging on daddy ball. I have no doubt that your daughter is a good pitcher for her age, wants it and practices. But in your mind she is the best player, the only one who wants to learn strategy and is going far and away. That's normal as a parent. But when you coach her team and let this affect who is playing and who isn't, then you are verging, if not already are coaching daddy ball.

I can come at this as a player who had her mother coaching her from a very early age. I was a pitcher at 10/11. I was out the back practicing into the net that was bought for me. I pitched at rep (or your travel) level. There was another girl who also pitched. She got more time than me in the circle. Because my mother believed she was better. The fact that I was her daughter was irrelevant when she was coaching me. The ONLY difference was that if I mucked up, or was a brat, or didn't put all my effort in I not only got told off in front of my team, but I got in on the (30 min) drive home. Because I was expected to be better, to put more effort in.

I'm not a parent. So in some opinions I'm not valid to talk about it. But I honestly hope that when I have my own children and if I coach them, that if I ever get to the point I favour them, a friend (or preferably husband!) will step in and tell me. Because then I'm not coaching the whole team, which is my job as a coach.

If I've got a player that's playing catch with her mom in the backyard 3 days a week outside of practice during the season, that's great, and she should keep up the work, but parents have to understand that pitchers aren't created during 1 season of work. The 2 pitchers on our team are the girls who've been working at it consistently for longer than the others who want to pitch.

They are EIGHT and NINE years old. They are not 'pitchers' in the sense that they control the ball and have it do what they want. They are learning. They learn by practicing, but they also learn by time in the circle. If you as a coach are not giving them that time, then you are not doing your job.

I am so proud that my 8 yoa dd has enough maturity to aproach her coach in a poliite, respectful manner and request a shot,

I think that is AWESOME of your DD. I'm glad that her coach is finally giving her a chance. (and I'm sorry but the idea of 'vets' is laughable to me at that age )

Back on topic in rec league I think it changes as the players get older: 10U and younger anyone who wants to pitch should get a shot in a game. The ones that are really working at it should get the most time. At 12U and older I think the pitchers who are "serious" about it (i.e., taking lessons, etc.) should get the time in the circle .

I agree with this. One dig a game is not going to kill the team. Besides, again these are eight and nine years old. It might be important for the parents that they win (now anyways) but in three or four years neither the kids, nor the parents will remember much of that age group. They will still have the skills that they learnt there though. Not putting them on because 'they're not good enough' is a joke, because how are these kids going to get better unless they're actually getting playing time and learning?

I also think it's sad that a pitcher isn't considered serious unless her parents are shelling out tons of money. What a sad indication and future for the sport.

 

[chinamigarden]

People seem to think that coaches who have daughters who pitch, become coaches to give their kids an advantage. I suppose thats probably true for some. But if your dd pitches you are probably sitting on a bucket several times a week taking pitches off your shins as they try to learn new pitches. You are altering your yard, or your barn to make sure she has an appropriate place to practice. Your putting in a lot of time, effort and probably some money as well. Then you have a lot of parents (not all but a lot) whose kid plays in the field. They maybe play catch with them once in a while. Which of these parents is going to be more likely to become the coach? I would say the one who is willing to put the time and effort into the development of his dd, will also be more likely to be willing to help develop other players. So this constant knee jerk reaction to a father who is coaching his kid is getting tiring to me. If it wasn't for fathers who were willing to coach, how many Rec programs would you have, how many B teams, or All Star teams would you have. How many travel programs would you have?

I also have found that it is often the parent who does the least to help their kid who does the most complaining about how their kid is being treated. I live in the country, My front yard is big enough to do all sorts of fielding practice. A new neighbor brought his girl to tryout and I cut her, she wasn't ready. I told him, bring her by our place, we practice out front all the time. Give us a call or if you see us outside bring her over... Never once saw her the whole summer. Later I found out he talked me down to everyone he could, about how unfair I was. Does Daddy ball exist, yes it does. But sometimes its not Daddy Ball but some other daddy complaining.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Lozza, I do appreciate the perspective you bring to the conversations here and in regular spring rec, I gave more girls a chance to pitch in games than any 2 other teams combined in our league, including 5 different starters. It was a big deal to those players to get the ball. That often meant dealing with griping from my daughter's mom over the fact that she wasn't pitching. She'd also bitch at me if I dared put Mojo on the bench, which I did in the same rotation as I did the other lead pitcher and our top catcher.

Fall rec is different, though, because it's competitive. The only reason it's labeled 'rec' is because anyone can sign up to play. Coaches select their teams from the pool of available players. A bunch of players who should still be in 8u next year want to play 10u now because their families want them playing 10u in the spring. 10u spring rec is not nearly as competitive as 10u fall rec. Spring rec is the traditional rec. Fall rec, however, is like introductory TB. I have told all of the parents the deal and casually suggested (firmly, in 1 particular case) that 8u players remain in 8u next spring to continue their development with their year group.

I'm still going to try to teach them everything I can to be successful in the 10u game, but if I were encouraging these players and families to play up in the spring, I would be doing a disservice to them and to all the other players in our league.

 

[Axe]

Chinamigarden, thanks for sticking up for us "Daddyball" rec league coaches. Reality is that especially in fall ball (which is less competitive here) we have very minimal practice time. Lots of kids want to raise their hand to say they want to pitch but very few want to put in any extra effort to actually do what it takes. It's not fair to the team to put a kid in who has no clue of how to throw strikes. Any kid that wants to pitch, I will take some time with them at practice to show them what they need to practice to have a chance. I they can tell me honestly that they've practiced for 2-3 weeks regularly I will give them a shot. Reality is that if they care about pitching, they need to have someone else at home who cares enough to help them away from practice.

My kids are all Rec ball players but they've practice 3-4 times a week all summer on building their skills. Parents think they can drop their kids off at practice once a week and do nothing in between and we'll magically turn them into players. Well it doesn't work that way. Even encouraging people to go out and play catch with their kids (which is fun by the way) I generally get the reaction of "I don't have time, that's not my job."

Sorry for the rambling post but I sometimes think there's alot of TB parents and coaches on here who get high and mighty about "Daddyball" and forget how the real world works in rec league. Daddyball? Damn right, I wish a few more parents would be willing to do more than slow down the car enough for their daughters to get out. We'd all have alot more fun at the ball park.

 

[rdbass]

So true we need "Daddyball" if it wasn't for those dads there wouldn't be any coaches in some areas.Mine included.If your DD's wants to be a pitcher tell her to keep practicing and practicing.My DD would not see any mound time in the beginning even when I coached/assisted because in my area parents wanted a pitcher to just get it over the plate (their words).My DD and myself would just keep practicing year round.One day the pitching gods smiled upon my DD (pitchers sick,hurt or no show) and she was allowed to pitch.DD has never left the mound since.The other pitchers not pitching anymore.It is no magic or secret to pitching its simple keep practicing.Sure other bucket dads see the same thing I see when they practice with their DD.... nobody else out there practicing.I know around me the fields are empty.

 

[softballphreak]

Chinamigarden, thanks for sticking up for us "Daddyball" rec league coaches. Reality is that especially in fall ball (which is less competitive here) we have very minimal practice time. Lots of kids want to raise their hand to say they want to pitch but very few want to put in any extra effort to actually do what it takes. It's not fair to the team to put a kid in who has no clue of how to throw strikes. Any kid that wants to pitch, I will take some time with them at practice to show them what they need to practice to have a chance. I they can tell me honestly that they've practiced for 2-3 weeks regularly I will give them a shot. Reality is that if they care about pitching, they need to have someone else at home who cares enough to help them away from practice.

My kids are all Rec ball players but they've practice 3-4 times a week all summer on building their skills. Parents think they can drop their kids off at practice once a week and do nothing in between and we'll magically turn them into players. Well it doesn't work that way. Even encouraging people to go out and play catch with their kids (which is fun by the way) I generally get the reaction of "I don't have time, that's not my job."

Sorry for the rambling post but I sometimes think there's alot of TB parents and coaches on here who get high and mighty about "Daddyball" and forget how the real world works in rec league. Daddyball? Damn right, I wish a few more parents would be willing to do more than slow down the car enough for their daughters to get out. We'd all have alot more fun at the ball park.

Many people confuse "fair" as meaning "equal". They can be two completely separate things. A fair amount of playing time is not the same as an equal amount of playing time.

 

[PA SB Dad]

Many people confuse "fair" as meaning "equal". They can be two completely separate things. A fair amount of playing time is not the same as an equal amount of playing time.

Absolutely right. For 10U, and even 12U rec, in the fall, kids who want to try to pitch should be given opportunities. This is a time where we don't keep score, and move the kids around to learn new aspects of the game. It can occasionally get to be painful to watch, but kids need to experience this to determine whether they want to commit to learning to pitch. It does not have to be more than an inning, but the chance to pitch should be given to everyone who wants to try at the younger ages, in other words, fair but not equal.

I feel very differently about the older girls, even in rec. Once they hit 14U rec, the girls who have been taught to "just throw strikes" find out very quickly that most players can hit those meatballs really hard. I've seen a number of pitchers who were "good" at 12U rec because they threw strikes found that they didn't like pitching so much when every ball got put in play, usually for extra bases. The herd of pitchers quickly thins out and I think it becomes less of an issue. I do give priority to the kids taking lessons, and try to fit in girls who have pitched before but have not taken lessons whenever I can get them an inning, but not at the expense of the girls who need and deserve circle time.