- Feb 4, 2009
- 112
- 18
2 outs bases empty. Batter pops up in front of the plate and catcher drops it for an error extending the inning. Can any runs scored subsequently in the inning be considered earned since the inning was extended on an error?
Earned Run Question
- Thread starter flamethrower
- Start date
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Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
I AGREE, which means that you CAN have a cummulative total of earned and unearned runs for the team that doesn't equal the sum of the pitchers.
(Edited because I was wrong initially!)
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Greenmonsters is correct. It falls under the natural extension of the inning. The key here is 2 outs, what should have been the 3rd out was an error. So they could score 100 runs after that and all would be unearned.
Nice question Flamethrower, I've seen many people get this wrong in the stats.
Nice question Flamethrower, I've seen many people get this wrong in the stats.
greenmonsters and goingdeep, I usually agree with both of you but in this case you are wrong.
Rule - Earned Run Great softball pitching hints and recommendations for girl softball pitchers
Article by Gerald Warner of PitchSoftball.com
www.pitchsoftball.com
The run is unearned if:
3. the runner who scored had initially reached 1st base on an error, or defensive interference/obstruction.
4. the runner who scored, when at bat would have been out had it not been for a dropped foul ball.
5. the runner who scored had her baserunning life prolonged by an error and otherwise would have been put out had it not been for the error.
6. the runner who scored had advanced by a passed ball or defensive interference, and otherwise would not have scored.
7. When reconstructing the inning to determine which runs are earned, a relief pitcher does NOT receive the benefit of previous chances for outs for the runners she put on base.
Rule - Earned Run Great softball pitching hints and recommendations for girl softball pitchers
Article by Gerald Warner of PitchSoftball.com
www.pitchsoftball.com
The run is unearned if:
3. the runner who scored had initially reached 1st base on an error, or defensive interference/obstruction.
4. the runner who scored, when at bat would have been out had it not been for a dropped foul ball.
5. the runner who scored had her baserunning life prolonged by an error and otherwise would have been put out had it not been for the error.
6. the runner who scored had advanced by a passed ball or defensive interference, and otherwise would not have scored.
7. When reconstructing the inning to determine which runs are earned, a relief pitcher does NOT receive the benefit of previous chances for outs for the runners she put on base.
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- Feb 4, 2009
- 112
- 18
Thanks folks for confirming.
Hold up. Pitching is about the only thing I'm sure of. 
10.16 (a) (1) comment should be the same situation as the OP.
MLB rule
10.16 Earned Runs And Runs Allowed
An earned run is a run for which a pitcher is held accountable. In determining earned runs, the official scorer shall reconstruct the inning without the errors (which exclude catcher's interference) and passed balls, giving the benefit of the doubt always to the pitcher in determining which bases would have been reached by runners had there been errorless play. For the purpose of determining earned runs, an intentional base on balls, regardless of the circumstances, shall be construed in exactly the same manner as any other base on balls.
(a) The official scorer shall charge an earned run against a pitcher every time a runner reaches home base by the aid of safe hits, sacrifice bunts, a sacrifice fly, stolen bases, putouts, fielder's choices, bases on balls, hit batters, balks or wild pitches (including a wild pitch on third strike that permits a batter to reach first base) before fielding chances have been offered to put out the offensive team. For the purpose of this rule, a defensive interference penalty shall be construed as a fielding chance. A wild pitch is solely the pitcher's fault and shall contribute to an earned run just as a base on balls or a balk.
Rule 10.16(a) Comment: The following are examples of earned runs charged to a pitcher:
(1) Peter pitches and retires Abel and Baker, the first two batters of an inning. Charlie reaches first base on an error charged to a fielder. Daniel hits a home run. Edward hits a home run. Peter retires Frank to end the inning. Three runs have scored, but no earned runs are charged to Peter, because Charlie should have been the third out of the inning, as reconstructed without the error.
(2) Peter pitches and retires Abel. Baker hits a triple. While pitching to Charlie, Peter throws a wild pitch, allowing Baker to score. Peter retires Daniel and Edward. One run has scored, charged as an earned run to Peter, because the wild pitch contributes to an earned run.
In an inning in which a batter-runner reaches first base on a catcher’s interference, such batter-runner shall not count as an earned run should he subsequently score. The official scorer shall not assume, however, that such batter would have made an out absent the catcher’s interference (unlike, for example, situations in which a batter-runner reaches first base safely because of a fielder’s misplay of a ball for an error). Because such batter never had a chance to complete his time at bat, it is unknown how such batter would have fared absent the catcher’s interference. Compare the following examples:
(3) With two out, Abel reaches first on an error by the shortstop in misplaying a ground ball. Baker hits a home run. Charlie strikes out. Two runs have scored, but none is earned, because Abel’s at-bat should have been the third out of the inning, as reconstructed without the error.
(4) With two out, Abel reaches first on a catcher’s interference. Baker hits a home run. Charlie strikes out. Two runs have scored, but one (Baker’s) is earned, because the official scorer cannot assume that Abel would have made an out to end the inning, absent the catcher’s interference.
(b) No run shall be earned when scored by a runner who reaches first base
(1) on a hit or otherwise after his time at bat is prolonged by a muffed foul fly;
(2) because of interference or obstruction; or
(3) because of any fielding error.
(c) No run shall be earned when scored by a runner whose presence on the bases is prolonged by an error, if such runner would have been put out by errorless play.
(d) No run shall be earned when the scoring runner's advance has been aided by an error, a passed ball or defensive interference or obstruction, if in the official scorer’s judgment the run would not have scored without the aid of such misplay.
(e) An error by a pitcher is treated exactly the same as an error by any other fielder in computing earned runs.
(f) Whenever a fielding error occurs, the pitcher shall be given the benefit of the doubt in determining to which bases any runners would have advanced had the fielding of the defensive team been errorless.
(g) When pitchers are changed during an inning, the official scorer shall not charge the relief pitcher with any run (earned or unearned) scored by a runner who was on base at the time such relief pitcher entered the game, nor for runs scored by any runner who reaches base on a fielder's choice that puts out a runner left on base by any preceding pitcher.
10.16 (a) (1) comment should be the same situation as the OP.
MLB rule
10.16 Earned Runs And Runs Allowed
An earned run is a run for which a pitcher is held accountable. In determining earned runs, the official scorer shall reconstruct the inning without the errors (which exclude catcher's interference) and passed balls, giving the benefit of the doubt always to the pitcher in determining which bases would have been reached by runners had there been errorless play. For the purpose of determining earned runs, an intentional base on balls, regardless of the circumstances, shall be construed in exactly the same manner as any other base on balls.
(a) The official scorer shall charge an earned run against a pitcher every time a runner reaches home base by the aid of safe hits, sacrifice bunts, a sacrifice fly, stolen bases, putouts, fielder's choices, bases on balls, hit batters, balks or wild pitches (including a wild pitch on third strike that permits a batter to reach first base) before fielding chances have been offered to put out the offensive team. For the purpose of this rule, a defensive interference penalty shall be construed as a fielding chance. A wild pitch is solely the pitcher's fault and shall contribute to an earned run just as a base on balls or a balk.
Rule 10.16(a) Comment: The following are examples of earned runs charged to a pitcher:
(1) Peter pitches and retires Abel and Baker, the first two batters of an inning. Charlie reaches first base on an error charged to a fielder. Daniel hits a home run. Edward hits a home run. Peter retires Frank to end the inning. Three runs have scored, but no earned runs are charged to Peter, because Charlie should have been the third out of the inning, as reconstructed without the error.
(2) Peter pitches and retires Abel. Baker hits a triple. While pitching to Charlie, Peter throws a wild pitch, allowing Baker to score. Peter retires Daniel and Edward. One run has scored, charged as an earned run to Peter, because the wild pitch contributes to an earned run.
In an inning in which a batter-runner reaches first base on a catcher’s interference, such batter-runner shall not count as an earned run should he subsequently score. The official scorer shall not assume, however, that such batter would have made an out absent the catcher’s interference (unlike, for example, situations in which a batter-runner reaches first base safely because of a fielder’s misplay of a ball for an error). Because such batter never had a chance to complete his time at bat, it is unknown how such batter would have fared absent the catcher’s interference. Compare the following examples:
(3) With two out, Abel reaches first on an error by the shortstop in misplaying a ground ball. Baker hits a home run. Charlie strikes out. Two runs have scored, but none is earned, because Abel’s at-bat should have been the third out of the inning, as reconstructed without the error.
(4) With two out, Abel reaches first on a catcher’s interference. Baker hits a home run. Charlie strikes out. Two runs have scored, but one (Baker’s) is earned, because the official scorer cannot assume that Abel would have made an out to end the inning, absent the catcher’s interference.
(b) No run shall be earned when scored by a runner who reaches first base
(1) on a hit or otherwise after his time at bat is prolonged by a muffed foul fly;
(2) because of interference or obstruction; or
(3) because of any fielding error.
(c) No run shall be earned when scored by a runner whose presence on the bases is prolonged by an error, if such runner would have been put out by errorless play.
(d) No run shall be earned when the scoring runner's advance has been aided by an error, a passed ball or defensive interference or obstruction, if in the official scorer’s judgment the run would not have scored without the aid of such misplay.
(e) An error by a pitcher is treated exactly the same as an error by any other fielder in computing earned runs.
(f) Whenever a fielding error occurs, the pitcher shall be given the benefit of the doubt in determining to which bases any runners would have advanced had the fielding of the defensive team been errorless.
(g) When pitchers are changed during an inning, the official scorer shall not charge the relief pitcher with any run (earned or unearned) scored by a runner who was on base at the time such relief pitcher entered the game, nor for runs scored by any runner who reaches base on a fielder's choice that puts out a runner left on base by any preceding pitcher.
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Note is says nothing about runners put on by the relief pitcher.
Are you really going to make me dig up a baseball-reference box score/play-by-play that shows earned runs charged to a relief pitcher after an error that would have been the 3rd out was recorded to the orginal pitcher of the inning because I can but it might take me some time?
We are both right to an extent. We would need more info from the OP. Pitching change? His question on earned runs for the team or the pitcher?
Rule 10.16(i) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 10.16(i) to charge a relief pitcher with earned runs for which such relief pitcher is solely responsible. In some instances, runs charged as earned against the relief pitcher can be charged as unearned against the team.
For example:
(1) With two out and Peter pitching, Abel reaches first base on a base on balls. Baker reaches first base on an error. Roger relieves Peter. Charlie hits a home run, scoring three runs. The official scorer shall charge two unearned runs to Peter, one earned run to Roger and three unearned runs to the team (because the inning should have ended with the third out when Baker batted and an error was committed).
Rule 10.16(i) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 10.16(i) to charge a relief pitcher with earned runs for which such relief pitcher is solely responsible. In some instances, runs charged as earned against the relief pitcher can be charged as unearned against the team.
For example:
(1) With two out and Peter pitching, Abel reaches first base on a base on balls. Baker reaches first base on an error. Roger relieves Peter. Charlie hits a home run, scoring three runs. The official scorer shall charge two unearned runs to Peter, one earned run to Roger and three unearned runs to the team (because the inning should have ended with the third out when Baker batted and an error was committed).
