- Jun 22, 2008
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Just another thread that IMO shows the LBR should be dumped
Abandonment — did the runner leave live ball territory? No. Not an option for an out.
12.11.4 After reaching a base safely, the runner abandons her base (for example, obviously heads toward her position or the dugout believing she was put out, the batted ball was foul, etc.), or leaves the field of play for any reason.
EFFECT—The ball is live. The batter-runner or base runner(s) is out. Each
other runner may advance with liability to be put out.
Sec. 18 (Q) [A runner is out] after at least touching first base, the runner leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning their effort to touch the next base.
50d. [The batter-runner is out] when he fails to advance to first base and instead enters his team area
1. After a fair ball is hit, or
2. After a base on balls is issued, or
3. Anytime that he may legally advance to first base
...
9x. [A runner is out] when he abandons a base and enters his team area, or leaves the field of play, while the ball is alive
Based on this part from what maninblue shared I would say she is out.
View attachment 15767
If the pitcher had the ball in the circle it doesn't really matter that the runner never stopped moving as she was not immediately returning to the base or advancing to the next base, therefore, she would be out.
At 10C I could see an ump letting this go IF a run hadn't scored.
Yeah, but when the batter-runner overran first and then turned right, the ball wasn't in the circle with the pitcher. From the original post, the pitcher received the ball after "The batter goes back towards home on her way to the 3rd base dugout." So the LBR was not in effect when she turned after overrunning the base and started heading back toward first. Rather, it went into effect when the batter-runner was somewhere between first and home. And when it went into effect, the batter-runner is afforded the opportunity to stop and then immediately make the decision to head back to first, which is what she did.Based on this part from what maninblue shared I would say she is out.
View attachment 15767
If the pitcher had the ball in the circle it doesn't really matter that the runner never stopped moving as she was not immediately returning to the base or advancing to the next base, therefore, she would be out.
At 10C I could see an ump letting this go IF a run hadn't scored.
Yeah, but when the batter-runner overran first and then turned right, the ball wasn't in the circle with the pitcher. From the original post, the pitcher received the ball after "The batter goes back towards home on her way to the 3rd base dugout." So the LBR was not in effect when she turned after overrunning the base and started heading back toward first. Rather, it went into effect when the batter-runner was somewhere between first and home. And when it went into effect, the batter-runner is afforded the opportunity to stop and then immediately make the decision to head back to first, which is what she did.
Yeah, but when the batter-runner overran first and then turned right, the ball wasn't in the circle with the pitcher. From the original post, the pitcher received the ball after "The batter goes back towards home on her way to the 3rd base dugout." So the LBR was not in effect when she turned after overrunning the base and started heading back toward first. Rather, it went into effect when the batter-runner was somewhere between first and home. And when it went into effect, the batter-runner is afforded the opportunity to stop and then immediately make the decision to head back to first, which is what she did.
Technically you're right the LBR doesn't apply at this point because based on the USA Softball rules she abandoned the base so the play was dead and she should have been out. Plus, the runner from third should have been sent back instead of getting a run since the play should have been called dead.
Like the man in blue mentioned, I don't believe we know what code this game was under at the time either.