When success shows up....

[Powerof9]

Darn dumb coaches! Speaking as an ex-expert, I say do away with them all. I do remember the days of being an expert. I tried to coach then. LOL

Yep. Coaches can't win. Parents hate it when we coach and parents hate it when we are quite.
My favorite quote. "Truly, I say to you, no prophet is acceptable in his hometown" Luke 4:24 So even Jesus would have this problem if he had a daughter that played softball.

 

[HighStrung]

This has some good thoughts to process.

1. Try everything once.
Why? Access Why.
Ok tried it. Didnt help.
Do you keep trying it again with another coaches suggestion? Or speak up?!

Why, because though it may seem as though a particular instructor is teaching something different (which was the case in my example), they may in fact be using a different approach or method to get to the same result. We experienced this when DD began learning a curveball. PI had been working with her for a few weeks and we were seeing some progress, just not really getting the spin direction right. PI's daughter (Was DII pitcher) came to a lesson and showed her something just a little different. Interestingly enough the DII pitcher was also taught by our PI. What she explained in a slightly manner was what finally made everything make sense, and made a huge difference. DD literally had a curve within 30min of hearing what PI was trying to teach but in a different way. One little tidbit made the difference.

NO, I'm not saying to try absolutely everything, stand on one foot close your right eye and pitch behind your back. I'm also not saying you should take advice from 100 people at once and throw them all in at the same time you're working with someone who has a long term plan which is proving successful so far. I'm saying you never know where a gem of a hint will come from, which could make a difference. If it is inline with your current plan it may be worth it to give something new a try. Just as mentioned above, not every girl fits into a standard mold.

Now, going back to the original point of this thread...I'm also of the mindset of don't change what's already working. My "try everything" was more related to continued development, not something that's already successfully mastered.

 

[sluggers]

Success at one level does not guarantee success at the next level. For hitting and pitching, there is a correct way.

Possibly, the parent and the pitching/hitting coach have taught the kid wrong. The kid is succeeding at one level, but fundamental flaws will stop her progression at the next level.
Flaws in hitting or pitching might not be a problem at one level, but are killers at the next.

It happens all the time in pitching. A kid throws a 65 MPH fastball and strikes out everyone at 18U, and they proclaim her the next Jenny Finch. She has been getting by on speed, and has no movement and no control, and washes out at college.

 

[Lemond]

I’ve seen coaches who don’t instruct players who make errors. “That’s OK, good try, you’ll get the next one”... But will talk for 5 minutes to a kid who made the play, but he thinks it could have been done better.
I know that not all outs are
Done correctly or that not all errors are
Made by poor fielders. So that’s not what I’m talking about.

I mean third base charges a ball and makes the play and then for 5 minutes is instructed on how she should have made the play bare handed, or use the glove next
Time... but if the ball pops out of the RFs
Glove it’s “that’s OK get the next one”

I have seen and, admittedly, done this.

Player A - High level player, VERY coachable, makes a play but could do better by doing X. This player not only listens, but understands how to tweak her skills, and why, and is capable of implementing the advice in the next inning, which is great because their lefty slapper is leading off the next inning after we just retired the slower bottom of their order.

Player B - lower level, not coachable, bad attitude, maybe not even capable (special needs?) of processing the changes required to advance, especially mid-game. Come practice time, I may spend 15 minutes with her trying to make the improvement, but during the game, she may need the encouragement more than anything else, or, in a few unfortunate cases, would not accept the best advice in the world just to spite me. (Rec ball, so, no, not kidding!)

 

[radness]

Why, because though it may seem as though a particular instructor is teaching something different (which was the case in my example), they may in fact be using a different approach or method to get to the same result. We experienced this when DD began learning a curveball. PI had been working with her for a few weeks and we were seeing some progress, just not really getting the spin direction right. PI's daughter (Was DII pitcher) came to a lesson and showed her something just a little different. Interestingly enough the DII pitcher was also taught by our PI. What she explained in a slightly manner was what finally made everything make sense, and made a huge difference. DD literally had a curve within 30min of hearing what PI was trying to teach but in a different way. One little tidbit made the difference.

NO, I'm not saying to try absolutely everything, stand on one foot close your right eye and pitch behind your back. I'm also not saying you should take advice from 100 people at once and throw them all in at the same time you're working with someone who has a long term plan which is proving successful so far. I'm saying you never know where a gem of a hint will come from, which could make a difference. If it is inline with your current plan it may be worth it to give something new a try. Just as mentioned above, not every girl fits into a standard mold.

Now, going back to the original point of this thread...I'm also of the mindset of don't change what's already working. My "try everything" was more related to continued development, not something that's already successfully mastered.

Your post about pitching is not about already having success and changing it...rather looking to find success. Like the open mind in this case to want to continue to grow!

The hitting portion gleened from it a different scenario were she had made improvements you liked getting away from downward swing. Then mixed in what the coach wanted and back to downward swing....saying coach had know idea....
This gets muscle memory boogered up. And wonder why not speak up to avoid when you were already aware of new progress made with instructor.
Thats all.

Good post you brought up things to think about.

 

[Cannonball]

When I first started coaching high school a few decades ago, no one had private coaches. Most players played legion ball in baseball. We built two outdoor cages and then, created hitting stations with old fishing nets and remnant carpet supplied by one of the parents from his store. We would hit and hit. No one questioned the coaching. Why would they when we were winning 20+ games a year and then 30+ with a few state titles thrown in. People would tell others what their kids were doing in practice and those people would not believe it. Those kids became in demand by colleges because they already were used to a system as advanced as college. Heck, I've mentioned here before, at one point when I was coaching baseball, we had 3 full cages, two half cages, two rolling backstops, ... We threw live arm side by side on the diamond. Many of those kids went on to play professionally. The notion that private instructors were so much more knowledgeable than high school coaches only began in my area when BB was in high school. While I didn't have to deal with that since I am still "Coach" in the area, many of my colleagues were speaking up about how suddenly they got dumb. Now, as I have returned to coaching after BB finished her college career, it is another world. Many of you are right, times have changed. I will continue to coach as I know how. I've had enough success that I'll match my record and achievements against anyone. Still, I do know that my time is coming to a close. I've tried to tell BB the same. She has never known any different and yet, I know that when she jumps in to coach, right away she will be questioned on every move.

 

[radness]

Success at one level does not guarantee success at the next level. For hitting and pitching, there is a correct way.

Possibly, the parent and the pitching/hitting coach have taught the kid wrong. The kid is succeeding at one level, but fundamental flaws will stop her progression at the next level.
Flaws in hitting or pitching might not be a problem at one level, but are killers at the next.

It happens all the time in pitching. A kid throws a 65 MPH fastball and strikes out everyone at 18U, and they proclaim her the next Jenny Finch. She has been getting by on speed, and has no movement and no control, and washes out at college.

The difficult part in this being the reasoning to change success when it shows up..
Is all the different viewpoints of what success should look like.
Or what one coach thinks is the right way can be different than another's.

Especially because success is not only one set of mechanics or strategy.

 

[Cannonball]

The difficult part in this being the reasoning to change success when it shows up..
Is all the different viewpoints of what success should look like.
Or what one coach thinks is the right way can be different than another's.

Especially because success is not only one set of mechanics or strategy.

I have a good buddy who had won a state championship who asked if he could bring his coaching staff and players to our school to watch us practice. I didn't understand why but I told him my practices were open to everyone. He walked around with me in practice and we talked baseball. I learned a lot that day. During the summer one year, I knew the following spring I was going to have an exceptional team. My wife and I were headed to Kentucky. I asked her if I could go an hour out of our way to stop by a coach's house who had won 2 state championships. We talked baseball for nearly 3 hours. That is how you learn. If some of you have not seen a top flight TB softball team, play, go watch the pre game and then the game. You can learn a lot.

 

[_MIA_]

The difficult part in this being the reasoning to change success when it shows up..
Is all the different viewpoints of what success should look like.
Or what one coach thinks is the right way can be different than another's.

Especially because success is not only one set of mechanics or strategy.

This is where the coach communicating what they are seeing, and the reasons why what the kid is doing won't work at current level, along with the parent knowing enough to understand the argument put forth and whether or not it makes sense, are important. Contrary to the narrative hinted at , there are some people/parents who have never coached who have been around the game their whole lives or who have taught themselves the game once their kid got involved, who know what is going on...

 

[_MIA_]

As the success of the kid is the only thing that should matter, everybody involved needs to have an open mind and be willing to learn in these circumstances instructors,coaches and parents.