Look Back Rule & Continuation Play (ASA Rules)

[CenCal]

Got a scenario here that has been bugging me, and would like to here your say on it.

Runner on 3rd, no outs. BR takes a walk and 1stbase coach decides to send BR to second via the continuation play. Pitcher does her job, hold's ball in circle which invoked the look back rule, runner on 3rd headed back to 3rd and stayed there. Meanwhile BR is running to 2nd base, touches 2nd base, takes three steps, turns and look, goes back to second. Umpire calls her out, I argue successfully that the runner never hesitated once and was referring to the Look Back Rule (ASA) Umpire reverses call, runner safe.

The play still gets to me though. I'm not a fan of the continuation play, I would rather teach my players how to steal. The BR in question is my DD and I always coached my players to run as if you were going to take two bases. Afterwards, she told me she was unsure whether she was out or safe as she came off of 2nd base and went back, especially with the other runner at 3rd.

Ive looked at the rule book, where it talks about the Look Back Rule and it does not say anything about stepping off of 2nd base and continuing. Ive looked at where it say what scenarios will make the BR out, I saw nothing. Am I not seeing it? Something is telling me I am wrong, the BR should have been out, but under what rule? Wasn't she safe? she never violated the look back rule as it is written. Is the play considered dead once she reached 2nd base? Can she be called out if she went off the base? It was not as if she stopped at 2nd base and then decided to take three steps and come back, it was in one continuing motion. What do you all think the call is?

 

[BretMan]

If the runner rounded second, stopped once, then immediately went back to second, she did not violate the Look Back Rule and should not have been called out. That is perfectly legal baserunning.

 

[sluggers]

Brett's right.

 

[softballphreak]

I've seen quite a few runners called out like that. It seems if they stop and make eye contact with the pitcher they're called out. Maybe they need to add a 2-second rule where you better be on the way to somewhere within that 2 seconds.

 

[starsnuffer]

Perfectly legal, however, many view it as a bad habit. There have been many "bad calls" made. I know one high level TB club in the area that will bench girls if they round 2nd like that.

I'm not going into why I am not a fan of taking 2nd on a walk, but if the coach think that having a runner on 2-3 gives them more opportunities to make something happen then having a runner on 3 when they try to steal 2, then more power to them.

-W

 

[FPMark]

Congratulations,... I think. You convinced the ump to make the correct call... but you think you were wrong? LOL, don't see that very often!

 

[CenCal]

Congratulations,... I think. You convinced the ump to make the correct call... but you think you were wrong? LOL, don't see that very often!

Funny that you say that. The night before the game (Rec playoff game), I was going through the "local rules" just to be sure I was familiar with what they expected. The Look Back Rule was printed word for word (ASA rules), and sure enough, said situation occurs and I just simply explained the rule almost word for word and the ump agreed.

The reason why I posted this question to the forum was that yesterday, championship game (we won by the way), at the home plate meeting between coaches and umpires, the home plate umpire talks about a call earlier in the week that was disputed and what the ruling should have been (guess which call?). I asked him about the continuation off of 2nd base. He said that the runner should have been called out. I told him that's now how I understood the look back rule, he said she made the commitment to 2nd base after rounding 1st base, when she went off the bag at 2nd, she is out. I left it at that, I wanted to get on with the game. Made clear to the 1st base coach not to send a runner on a continuation play so I don't have to wonder about that happening again.

After the conversation, it just made me wonder more and more, home plate umpire must be right, right? especially if he is the head umpire for the rec league (I'm not sure about that one) has coached his daughter's travel team, has coached varsity basketball and is the current athletic director of one of the local high schools. His answer still made me wonder, I was wavering back and forth, I'm right, he's wrong, he's right, I'm wrong.

Oh well, were only human, right?

 

[FPMark]

It sounds like the ump was describeing his interpretation of the rule instead of the rule itself. The LBR is pretty plain in it's wording in Rule 8 section 7 T, "while the pitcher has controll of the ball within an 8 foot radius of the pitcher's plate, the runner may stop once, but then must immediately return to the base or attempt to continue to the next base." There is nothing in the rules that could possibly be shown to overrule the "may stop once" portion of the LBR.

In annother recent thread about the LBR, BretMan even made the arguement that the runner could stop after rounding 1st, continue to 2nd, round 2nd, stop again, and then go back to 2nd without violating the rule, because the rule requirement would be met, and start over, by reaching the next base.

Many coaches don't understand the LBR and depend on the umpires to explain it to them. Many umpires don't understand the LBR and explain it incorrectly. Untill coaches/umpires start studying the rule, and protesting/overruleing incorrect interpretations of it, it will continue to be the most misunderstood rule in the game.

Yes we are all human, that's why the rules are written down in the rule book.

 

[rachelsdad]

To better understand the look back rule you'll also need to read the supplement that goes with it. SUPPLEMENT 34 It might be the way they are interpreting RULE A or H.