12U pitchers throwing 58-60 mph

[lostcreek1]

The issue, I believe, is that someone throwing harder than you doesn’t automatically mean that they are better than you at the skill (pitching). Many girls can throw hard but might not be as effective as another pitcher who doesn‘t throw as hard. So putting all of the attention on speed alone isn’t being fully transparent as a PC. It’s a selling point - and a good one because so many people obviously buy into it.

No it only means they are better than you at throwing the ball fast. I am not sure how you construed my post to mean that all the attention is being put on speed alone. Where my DD takes lessons accuracy is emphasized during lessons a lot more than speed. It just so happens that speed is a lot easier to measure and track over time.

 

[radness]

. It just so happens that speed is a lot easier to measure and track over time.

Yes easier to measure!

Comparatively how many times do we see pitching videos with a Target the pitcher is locating controlling specific spots purposely with different pitches.
(Not often at all)
(We may see somebody who's catching the pitch)
but specifically I mean pitching at a Target like throwing darts at a board.
Seeing that control
along with

(imo ) would like to see people sharing the *different mph speeds* their pitchers can control.

This comes from my catcher's perspective!
And
The Challenge from being in the Batters Box!

 

[uncdrew]

So answer me this:

How many super fast, wild pitchers do y'all see on a tournament weekend? Me? Very few.

How many accurate pitchers who are "slow" do I see on a tournament weekend? A lot.


In my world (12-14U A ball) pitchers are almost all accurate.

 

[radness]

So answer me this:

How many super fast, wild pitchers do y'all see on a tournament weekend? Me? Very few.

How many accurate pitchers who are "slow" do I see on a tournament weekend? A lot.


In my world (12-14U A ball) pitchers are almost all accurate.

What are the speeds you're considering super fast Wild? Compared to slower?



Do see pitchers who are wild throwing speeds where the Batters are not yet developed to have timely efficient swings.
In other words they are beaten by the speed of the pitch because they haven't developed timing yet.
And batters are beating themselves by swinging at pitches that are balls.

Of which I think that scenario confuses people thinking that speed is the denominator. But really it's offensive developmental level is not equal to the task.

But when it's competitive versus competitive the speed or wild effect is not enough.

 

[uncdrew]

What are the speeds you're considering super fast Wild? Compared to slower?



Do see pitchers who are wild throwing speeds where the Batters are not yet developed to have timely efficient swings.
In other words they are beaten by the speed of the pitch because they haven't developed timing yet.
And batters are beating themselves by swinging at pitches that are balls.

Of which I think that scenario confuses people thinking that speed is the denominator. But really it's offensive developmental level is not equal to the task.

But when it's competitive versus competitive the speed or wild effect is not enough.

In our 12U full season last year, we saw many pitchers 50-55 with good accuracy, spin and change of pace. Pretty much every game other than when we saw someone pitching faster. Probably 90% of games. We won most all of these games.

10% of the time we saw someone in the high 50s, and these won about half of these games. And they were usually close games.

We were fortunate to have 3 pitchers who average 54-58 and our pitching wins a lot of games. And our defense is pretty amazing (if I must say so myself). Stud catchers, SS and OFs especially, but all positions solid.

So I guess I'm saying the pitchers I see either:
1) Should focus more on speed
2) Did a great job learning accuracy
3) Just haven't grown enough to be fast but might be soon
4) All of the above

Now when I've watched B level tourneys, which is often, I do see wild pitchers. Usually at lower speeds (50-55). And perhaps that makes sense. Pitchers are hard to find and every one gets multiple offers from other teams each season. So the ones who are the most accurate and have speed make their way to the best A-level teams.

 

[uncdrew]

What are the speeds you're considering super fast Wild? Compared to slower?



Do see pitchers who are wild throwing speeds where the Batters are not yet developed to have timely efficient swings.
In other words they are beaten by the speed of the pitch because they haven't developed timing yet.
And batters are beating themselves by swinging at pitches that are balls.

Of which I think that scenario confuses people thinking that speed is the denominator. But really it's offensive developmental level is not equal to the task.

But when it's competitive versus competitive the speed or wild effect is not enough.

You make good points.

I watch teams struggle against our pitching. Often it's as much (or more) the batters causing the strikeouts as the pitchers. Can't lay off the rise ball is common, as many 12U players haven't seen rise balls much and get fooled by them. Or fan at outside curveballs, etc.

And some teams we just blow the ball by them. They've never seen high 50s in a game and certainly aren't up to the challenge.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

No it only means they are better than you at throwing the ball fast. I am not sure how you construed my post to mean that all the attention is being put on speed alone. Where my DD takes lessons accuracy is emphasized during lessons a lot more than speed. It just so happens that speed is a lot easier to measure and track over time.

Then why post the speeds when accuracy is clearly more important? Why not post, "Jane hit her tunnel 8 out of 10 times, and her spots 6 out of 10?" I'll tell you why. Speed is A) easier to quantify. B) speed is sexier.

I have no issues with speed. I know my daughter's personal training and in-game speed, and she throws harder than most girls her age. I don't understand the need to put names on a board with speeds. We know a girl who throws 67 in lessons and 70 on a run-through but struggles to throw strikes in games. Oddly enough, her trainers always post about her speed, but they never mention that she struggles when it counts.

To each his peach, I suppose.

 

[daywalkerdad]

Let’s not forget the catcher, and coaching matters as much as the pitcher. Catchers matter a lot.

In my observation which is semi limited. No correlation exists between velocity and accuracy. If anything harder throwers are slightly more accurate. Usually having better form. Slow pitchers seem to get a larger zone from many umps.

You cannot work on accuracy without working on form for high velocity. In my experience with DD, to stay accurate she needs to throw from time to time worried about form and not caring were it is going.

 

[_MIA_]

The ole Velocity vs Accuracy debate...a DFP favorite. Greg Maddux and Cat Osterman will be making appearances soon.

Another trigger..I think I need to delete my account (which actually isn't possible..I have checked..multiple times...)

 

[lostcreek1]

So answer me this:

How many super fast, wild pitchers do y'all see on a tournament weekend? Me? Very few.

How many accurate pitchers who are "slow" do I see on a tournament weekend? A lot.


In my world (12-14U A ball) pitchers are almost all accurate

I would say in 12-14u A level ball all of your pitchers are going to be quite accurate or they wouldn't be pitching in A level ball. They are a ton of girls in 12 -14u that are not accurate and they are playing B level or C level ball. The girls pitching on your team are both super fast and accurate, which I guess is why they are playing A level ball. If they were not accurate or throwing mid 40's instead of mid to upper 50's I am sure they would probably have to find somewhere else to play. I think what you would consider slow is a little off due to the level of ball you play. From the numbers I have seen in 12u slow would be mid 40's. mid to upper 50's is going top put you in the top 10%-15%.