DIII and Financial Aid - what's your experience?

[Strike2]

I graduated from a private school over 20 years ago that was about 30K per year and ended up with about 20K in loans which I paid off shortly after I finished graduate school. Personally I doubt I would have gotten into the graduate school that I did if I hadn't gone there and I would have not likely gotten an academic position had I not gone to the quality of graduate school I did where the quality of my PhD advisor helped me get a good post-doc position. That said, academic positions are different than most other positions. I agree with you for the most part though, how well you do in school is the most important thing for most people.

I can easily see how the school really matters when talking about a career in academia. I have a relative who is considered among the best in the field of mathmatics and physics. That wouldn't be true had he gone to ____ State University instead of Harvard and Princeton.

 

[_MIA_]

I can easily see how the school really matters when talking about a career in academia.

It shouldn't be that way..quality of your doctoral research (if you are going to a research university) should be the only thing that matters...but that isn't the way it works unfortunately.

 

[_MIA_]

I can easily see how the school really matters when talking about a career in academia. I have a relative who is considered among the best in the field of mathmatics and physics. That wouldn't be true had he gone to ____ State University instead of Harvard and Princeton.

For your PhD, your advisor is so very important. For most they show you how to do research,pick interesting problems and for those interesting in becoming academics themselves, how to mentor students. Picking a good advisor is the most important thing you can do. I lucked out in that regard. The guy I wanted to work with originally had no positions open (I went there on a full scholarship with no advisor picked) and the guy I ended up working with was a National Academy of Engineering member who had enough patience to guide somebody with some potential but who had a lot to learn. He was basically a father figure (academically at least..I actually found out later in a very strange way that he was not exactly the most faithful husband..lol) to me for 5+ years.

 

[Shiloh]

It shouldn't be that way..quality of your doctoral research (if you are going to a research university) should be the only thing that matters...but that isn't the way it works unfortunately.

Yes, unfortunately - very unfortunately - name matters. Prestige Private U confers a lifelong advantage, as people (especially recruiters and HR depts) use the name as a shortcut to confer ability.

In some sense this is true: Harvard students worked hard to get excellent grades and they have been highly vetted and hand-selected, SUNY students generally have not. But in some sense it's not true: if a student can navigate the uneven playing field and come out on top at State U, they have tremendous discipline and maturity AND a skillset the Harvard/Wharton/U Chicago grad does not have. And if that State U grad was also an athlete - whew. Hire them on the spot.

Pattar alluded to seeing this play out real-time in his classroom: it takes a lot of maturity and discipline not to be dragged down by fellow students who aren't serious or maybe don't even want to be in college.

 

[Vertigo]

My best suggestion is if your kid has a pretty good idea of what they want to major in, look at where recent grads of their possible schools in that major have obtained employment, also look at the starting salaries for the various majors from those schools, and percentage employed in their field within a year of graduation (you may or may not be able to find this on the school’s web site). This can give you a pretty good idea of the schools’ track records in the employment and grad school placement arena.

ETA: Certain majors prestige definitely matters, others not so much.

 

[_MIA_]

My best suggestion is if your kid has a pretty good idea of what they want to major in, look at where recent grads of their possible schools in that major have obtained employment, also look at the starting salaries for the various majors from those schools, and percentage employed in their field within a year of graduation (you may or may not be able to find this on the school’s web site).

Every department will have this information, even if they don't put it on their website. It is used for accreditation purposes and usually is discussed in a few very long/boring faculty meetings . If it isn't on the website call the actual department and ask for it.

 

[_MIA_]

Yes, unfortunately - very unfortunately - name matters. Prestige Private U confers a lifelong advantage, as people (especially recruiters and HR depts) use the name as a shortcut to confer ability.

There a lot of variables to take into account, in particular if you want to go into STEM. Quality of instruction (not guaranteed to be any better at prestige university), number of courses offered (bigger elite universities will typically have many more options) and something which is not often thought about, depth of material covered. As an instructor you have to decide whether or not you want to teach to the low,middle or high end of the quality of your students. Higher quality students typically allow instructors to go into a lot more depth on a subject, even in undergrad. How the latter effects job options I am not sure but it will effect job performance in some cases.

 

[Vertigo]

I will also add that going into a lot of debt for a prestigious institution is probably not worth it - but some definitely view education as a worthwhile investment. It’s all about what you and your kid feel most comfortable doing in the end.

 

[cncsoftball]

Along the lines of "top" universities & spending the money for the "name", I think it depends on your degree and what you plan to do with it when you graduate. Our son chose LSU (we live in Indiana) because he thought he wanted to go into petroleum engineering. He received significant scholarship money--all merit-based. After one year, he decided that wasn't the right path for him, and he wanted to change to political communications and go to law school when he graduated. Well, he thought LSU wouldn't be prestigious enough to get him into a t12 law school, so he applied and got into two Ivy schools thinking he was definitely transferring sophomore year. When neither of those schools offered ANY money whatsoever, we convinced (told ) him that it made no sense to waste his scholarship at LSU. If he worked hard in undergrad and got a good LSAT score, it wouldn't matter that he went to a state school. He WAS NOT happy, but he accepted it, worked hard to graduate in three years with a 4.0, scored well on the LSAT, and was accepted into three t12 law schools. What do you know... good old Mom and Dad were right!

 

[_MIA_]

I will also add that going into a lot of debt for a prestigious institution is probably not worth it - but some definitely view education as a worthwhile investment. It’s all about what you and your kid feel most comfortable doing in the end.

How do you want to live after you graduate? If you want to buy a house, new car, plan on having kids soon, etc then the debt is going to be an issue. If you plan on (post undergrad graduation) dating your future wife for 7 years, share a car with her for 5 years, live in an apartment with her 8 years and own the same tv for 15 years then you may be able to manage it . Future wife was working as an elementary school teacher for part of that time as well (took time off to get her Masters when I was doing my post-doc).At no point during the time before I got my job in academia was our "family income" over 60K and we paid off about 40K in loans in about 4 years.

Re-reading what I just wrote..I have no doubt no kid graduating in the 2020's will want to do any of that LOL.