Chelsea Wilkinson

[Tazman]

We've tried that also to teams picking it...take the grip and then switch and throw a fastball mid motion

 

[Hillhouse]

We've tried that also to teams picking it...take the grip and then switch and throw a fastball mid motion

Sorry all. I just re-read this and didn't realize it'd be so long. It's just a story about something that happened to my team years ago. Sorry about the length.

2009 ASA men's major national championship, South Bend Indiana. I was on the NY Gremlins. We beat a team from Wisconsin in the opening round, which was kind of an upset. That team was considered one of the best around. Anyway, we won 3-1 I think. To make a long story short, we ended up winning the winner's bracket and were in the finals. The team we beat in game #1, went all the way through the loser's bracket with mostly using the same pitcher every game. So the National championship final is set between Gremlins/The Farm Tavern. Our other pitcher started the game for us, and was getting hit hard. So, I came in... same thing. The Farm just tee'd off on anything and everything we threw. Absolutely nothing fooled them. Keep in mind, The Farm was in the 3rd base dugout which gave them an advantage when facing us, because all our pitchers are right handed. ****one added piece for context: whenever I pitch, I'm always hyper sensitive to my surroundings. I develop rabbit ears and I listen to what the opposing team is saying, what the 3rd base coach is saying, etc. My ears are tuned into their dugout so I can tell if they have me picked. If they do have a pick, is it coming from the dugout? The coach? A fan? If I can figure out who's got the pick and is signaling the code to the hitter, then I may be able to change things enough that the opposition loses whatever pick they had on me.

Now, to be fair, I'm old. And this was 2009 so I was almost 40 years old and have been on the circuit for quite a while. And, at this level of fastpitch (something that I thing girls should start doing), all the great hitters keep a 3 ring binder notebook in their gear bag that contains info about all the top pitchers they face. They'll have pages and pages full of things about the pitchers they face the most and who are difficult to pick. A basic page will list the guy's name "John Doe", and then list both things that have been picked and their tendencies. The info might state that he holds the ball higher on his waist when throwing a drop vs. a rise which might be lower. He might bury his wrist further in his glove on the change up. Etc. Then with tendencies they will have info about his best pitch, how good is the change up, will he throw the change with a full count, what pitch does he usually use with a full count, etc. etc. etc. So this notebook binder will have all of this. And you might think it's common for guys, who join a new team to tell the new team pitchers how they had him picked and what they had on him. But most of the time, that guy isn't going to share his info. Even though they're now on the same team, you never know if they'll be on the same team the following year and he may not wanna give away all his "picks".

Ok back to the game to finish the story: so about the 5th inning of this game, I start to hear a pattern of what they're saying. Even when I entered the game, the same guy had a pick against me almost immediately, and believe me, I was making a big effort to conceal the pitches from them!!! But no matter what I did, they knew what pitch I was going to be throwing. I would hold the ball like a change up, then change my grip mid-pitch into a rise or a drop but, they still knew what I was throwing. The other pitcher on my team and I were turning ourselves inside-out trying to figure out WTF!!!!!!???????!!! It was baffling.

The Farm double dipped us, beating us in the championship game, and again in the "If" game. So the same pitcher went through the loser's brackets and then beat us in the finals twice. Now obviously losing like this is devastating. I mean, sick to my stomach type devastating. How could this happen??? South Bend IN was about a 6 hr drive for me at the time, so I drove there instead of flying. Most everyone else flew. The finals of the men's nationals start at 9am ("if" game at 11am), and they do this so everyone gets home early on Sunday night and doesn't miss the next day of work. I spent that whole drive home sick, wanting to puke. How could this happen? Anyway, at the airport was some guys from The Farm team, mingling with out guys at one of the airport bars. After feeding him 3-4 beers and bugging this guy without mercy, he finally confessed about what happened in the game. The Farm did not have the pitchers picked at all, they had our CATCHER picked. He would unconsciously do something differently with his glove hand when he'd call a rise, drop or change up and he never knew that he did it. The Farm had noticed it in our first game of the tournament, when we had beat them but it was too late in the game for them to do anything with it. But, they added the info into their binders and would use it the next time we played. And as luck would have it, that "next time" became the National championship finals. When we told the catcher what the Farm player had told us, he immediately knew what he was talking about. He knew the mistake he was making but didn't realize it at the time obviously.

Anyway, @Tazman when you mentioned changing grip mid-pitch, that reminded me of that story.

 

[Tazman]

Sorry all. I just re-read this and didn't realize it'd be so long. It's just a story about something that happened to my team years ago. Sorry about the length.

2009 ASA men's major national championship, South Bend Indiana. I was on the NY Gremlins. We beat a team from Wisconsin in the opening round, which was kind of an upset. That team was considered one of the best around. Anyway, we won 3-1 I think. To make a long story short, we ended up winning the winner's bracket and were in the finals. The team we beat in game #1, went all the way through the loser's bracket with mostly using the same pitcher every game. So the National championship final is set between Gremlins/The Farm Tavern. Our other pitcher started the game for us, and was getting hit hard. So, I came in... same thing. The Farm just tee'd off on anything and everything we threw. Absolutely nothing fooled them. Keep in mind, The Farm was in the 3rd base dugout which gave them an advantage when facing us, because all our pitchers are right handed. ****one added piece for context: whenever I pitch, I'm always hyper sensitive to my surroundings. I develop rabbit ears and I listen to what the opposing team is saying, what the 3rd base coach is saying, etc. My ears are tuned into their dugout so I can tell if they have me picked. If they do have a pick, is it coming from the dugout? The coach? A fan? If I can figure out who's got the pick and is signaling the code to the hitter, then I may be able to change things enough that the opposition loses whatever pick they had on me.

Now, to be fair, I'm old. And this was 2009 so I was almost 40 years old and have been on the circuit for quite a while. And, at this level of fastpitch (something that I thing girls should start doing), all the great hitters keep a 3 ring binder notebook in their gear bag that contains info about all the top pitchers they face. They'll have pages and pages full of things about the pitchers they face the most and who are difficult to pick. A basic page will list the guy's name "John Doe", and then list both things that have been picked and their tendencies. The info might state that he holds the ball higher on his waist when throwing a drop vs. a rise which might be lower. He might bury his wrist further in his glove on the change up. Etc. Then with tendencies they will have info about his best pitch, how good is the change up, will he throw the change with a full count, what pitch does he usually use with a full count, etc. etc. etc. So this notebook binder will have all of this. And you might think it's common for guys, who join a new team to tell the new team pitchers how they had him picked and what they had on him. But most of the time, that guy isn't going to share his info. Even though they're now on the same team, you never know if they'll be on the same team the following year and he may not wanna give away all his "picks".

Ok back to the game to finish the story: so about the 5th inning of this game, I start to hear a pattern of what they're saying. Even when I entered the game, the same guy had a pick against me almost immediately, and believe me, I was making a big effort to conceal the pitches from them!!! But no matter what I did, they knew what pitch I was going to be throwing. I would hold the ball like a change up, then change my grip mid-pitch into a rise or a drop but, they still knew what I was throwing. The other pitcher on my team and I were turning ourselves inside-out trying to figure out WTF!!!!!!???????!!! It was baffling.

The Farm double dipped us, beating us in the championship game, and again in the "If" game. So the same pitcher went through the loser's brackets and then beat us in the finals twice. Now obviously losing like this is devastating. I mean, sick to my stomach type devastating. How could this happen??? South Bend IN was about a 6 hr drive for me at the time, so I drove there instead of flying. Most everyone else flew. The finals of the men's nationals start at 9am ("if" game at 11am), and they do this so everyone gets home early on Sunday night and doesn't miss the next day of work. I spent that whole drive home sick, wanting to puke. How could this happen? Anyway, at the airport was some guys from The Farm team, mingling with out guys at one of the airport bars. After feeding him 3-4 beers and bugging this guy without mercy, he finally confessed about what happened in the game. The Farm did not have the pitchers picked at all, they had our CATCHER picked. He would unconsciously do something differently with his glove hand when he'd call a rise, drop or change up and he never knew that he did it. The Farm had noticed it in our first game of the tournament, when we had beat them but it was too late in the game for them to do anything with it. But, they added the info into their binders and would use it the next time we played. And as luck would have it, that "next time" became the National championship finals. When we told the catcher what the Farm player had told us, he immediately knew what he was talking about. He knew the mistake he was making but didn't realize it at the time obviously.

Anyway, @Tazman when you mentioned changing grip mid-pitch, that reminded me of that story.

Great story!

 

[Vertigo]

Dd throws a knuckle change in college. She rarely has issues with it getting picked but when it does, she can throw her change a different way that isn’t quite as slow. She then will alternate between the two which really gets the 3B coach fired up.

 

[Hillhouse]

Dd throws a knuckle change in college. She rarely has issues with it getting picked but when it does, she can throw her change a different way that isn’t quite as slow. She then will alternate between the two which really gets the 3B coach fired up.

Part of the problem is that the majority of coaches don't know how to pick. Sure, they might be able to see the obvious at 3rd base box, looking at a pitcher who does little to conceal anything.

But picking a pitcher who does a good job of hiding and concealing pitches is an art that takes time. And, quite frankly it's just not something girls grow up doing much of. And that's sad. But it's changing slowly. Right now, if you go to 80% of travel ball games in the country, just by paying a moniker of attention to the pitcher in the circle, you'll find an overwhelming majority of pitchers show their pitch from the moment they step on they take the sign. It frustrates me to watch. And I worry about their facing a team coached by Mike White or Travis Wilson at 3rd base.