Where is the strike zone?

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Jun 6, 2016
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Chicago
Remember this from Rec days. In practice, it usually proved to be so much posturing. I did see an umpire once call a strike that actually bounced before reaching Home. He ignored my subsequent question, but didn't do it again.

Oh, I've seen this more than once. Had an umpire who called multiple bounced pitches (AND wouldn't let my players put their front foot anywhere in front of home plate despite what the batter's box actually is; we did not have lines) for the other team. For my pitcher, I resorted to just telling her to throw it down the middle. The catcher wasn't moving her mitt and he was calling a ball pretty much every time (I know it doesn't matter where the ball is caught, but we're talking right, right there). This was a high school game. One of maybe three losses we've ever had where I know it was because of the umpire. In the same game, R1 ran over F4 while she was fielding a ground ball. She did field the ball. Not only did he say there was no interference, he said there was no tag as they collided and fell down together.

There were several other issues during this game. We will play that team again next year, and I'm considering telling them we won't play them if he's working it.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
Hmmm thats swatting a hornet's nest...yes book no book...
Game starts One Way ends another 🤷‍♀️

What would you consider adjusting as necessary? Or was that just tagged to rec ball?

Myself would prefer consistency from the beginning to the end.

RAD, I think this is one of those instances where you don't understand because of the level of softball you see.

How many games have you seen where a pitcher on one team walks 20 hitters for a varsity high school game? It's brutal for everybody, especially when it's March and the temperature is hovering around 40 degrees. I am fine with an umpire opening the zone up when that happens. But he'd better do it for the pitcher on the other team, too. The idea isn't to punish the good pitcher and let the losing team back in it. It's to speed things along. Don't call everything a strike. I'm not talking pitches that bounce or are unhittable. But an extra ball or two off the plate? Go for it. A pitch a little bit high? Fine. Usually these bad pitchers also don't throw hard, so a chin-high pitch is actually hittable anyway.

I've had umpires tell me during these games that they're going to expand the zone. I know this isn't really what they should do, but I am fine with it. And I happily tell my hitters that they might get some tough pitches called strikes. I think it helps them adjust to different umpiring anyway. As we've all seen, sometimes we just have the umpires who will call a pitch 8 inches outside, so maybe use that game as an opportunity to figure out how to hit it.

Can make some comparisons to other sports. I've seen some pretty bad basketball games where the refs will let some little stuff slide because the game would last two hours if they blew the whistle every 7 seconds. And if the game isn't close? Even better.
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
RAD, I think this is one of those instances where you don't understand because of the level of softball you see.
I am involved in all different levels of softball. Watching and teaching.
Did put in my post if you were referencing rec ball 🙂

How many games have you seen where a pitcher on one team walks 20 hitters for a varsity high school game?
High School leagues have so much diversity of talent levels in them that some pitchers could strike out every batter on another team and sometimes almost do. And batters facing extremely weak pitching have to utilize lots of patience and waiting for pitches that might be strikes. Or near being a strike 🙂

Are you suggesting that those strike zones should be different for each team?

It's brutal for everybody, especially when it's March and the temperature is hovering around 40 degrees. I am fine with an umpire opening the zone up when that happens. But he'd better do it for the pitcher on the other team, too. The idea isn't to punish the good pitcher and let the losing team back in it.

It's to speed things along.
That is why there are specific rules (runs per inning guidelines, No Stealing Home Etc) for young ages. As players are older in high school, those rules are left behind. 🤷‍♀️

I've had umpires tell me during these games that they're going to expand the zone. I know this isn't really what they should do, but I am fine with it. And I happily tell my hitters that they might get some tough pitches called strikes. I think it helps them adjust to different umpiring anyway. As we've all seen, sometimes we just have the umpires who will call a pitch 8 inches outside, so maybe use that game as an opportunity to figure out how to hit it.
Think there is a debate about whether or not expanding The Zone makes it better or harder. Because batters have to deal with the expanded Zone. Simply saying there is both an offense and defense to consider.

The other factor is that if not all umpires decide to expand the zone the players have to deal with the actual Zone and learn to develop within it anyway.

Simply saying consistency from the beginning of the game would be fair and reasonable for all. This is why prefer consistency from the beginning lets everybody know what they're going to have to deal with. Regardless of ability.

I would guesstimate that at least 80% of the umpires who coach High School know what they're getting into before the game starts. They can come up with a fair Zone on the first pitch.
 
Last edited:

Strike2

Allergic to BS
Nov 14, 2014
2,044
113
Oh, I've seen this more than once. Had an umpire who called multiple bounced pitches (AND wouldn't let my players put their front foot anywhere in front of home plate despite what the batter's box actually is; we did not have lines) for the other team. For my pitcher, I resorted to just telling her to throw it down the middle. The catcher wasn't moving her mitt and he was calling a ball pretty much every time (I know it doesn't matter where the ball is caught, but we're talking right, right there). This was a high school game. One of maybe three losses we've ever had where I know it was because of the umpire. In the same game, R1 ran over F4 while she was fielding a ground ball. She did field the ball. Not only did he say there was no interference, he said there was no tag as they collided and fell down together.

There were several other issues during this game. We will play that team again next year, and I'm considering telling them we won't play them if he's working it.

A HS game? I was talking about 10 Rec. In a HS game, I'm getting video and sending it to whoever assigns umpires, and he's never working on my field again.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
A HS game? I was talking about 10 Rec. In a HS game, I'm getting video and sending it to whoever assigns umpires, and he's never working on my field again.

To be fair, some of the pitchers getting these calls have the ability of 10u rec pitchers.

It's only happened to us for away games. I only occasionally use an assignor for softball these days. I have an ever growing list of the good umps that I ask before I get someone assigned. Actually, a few of those umps aren't even good. But they try, know the rules, actually care about the kids. And none of them call pitches that bounce in front of the plate a strike.

FWIW, nothing I put in that last post would've gotten that umpire removed from doing any games. The IHSA wouldn't even look at the video. They certainly wouldn't talk to the umpire about doing a better job. Special reports are only for issues unrelated to quality of umpiring, and the umpire rating system is basically useless because it only marginally affects the chances of them getting postseason games. The state has no interest or desire to ensure umpires are good, and there's no mechanism to keep bad ones from working games.

The one time I submitted a special report was because an umpire went out of his way to humiliate a player on the other team. He called a close pitch a strike. She turned toward the 3B coach and did a little shrug to basically say it wasn't a strike. So he called time, walked onto home plate, took the bat from her, and said "What is this?" "A bat." "And what are you gonna do with it?" "Swing?" "That's right." Then he handed her the bat back and continued the game. It was loud enough for us to hear in the dugout.

That's one of the "everything is a strike" guys. In two games with him, we went 0-30 with 18 strike outs. I'd say maybe 1/3 of those were legitimate. Our team had 10, 0, 13, 0, and 11 hits in a five-game stretch. The pitching in all five was roughly comparable (the 13-hit game was with a very slow pitcher). My assignor even said he hates the way the guy umps.
 

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